[sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes .... alternatively,
why not run on the other side of the road-divider?
Sujit Patwardhan
sujit at vsnl.com
Tue Mar 20 14:44:02 JST 2007
20 March 2007
Dear JG,
I thought you had seen the BRT being implemented (even if shoddily) in Pune.
The dedicated bus lanes are in the central as you describe:
Traffic in India drives on the left side of a road. In the case of a divided
highway, one proposal is to run the BRTS in a separate lane (taking the
place of the "Fast Lane", i.e. to the right hand edge of the left half of
the road.
This means that entry and exit from the busses would have to be to and from
fresh islands in the road (since doors are on the left side of the bus) or
else fresh doors would have to be cut into the bus, so that passengers can
board and get off onto a central island..
Do take a look. The design is good and will eventually start working but it
seems such a waste to execute it so badly as Pune Municipal Corporation is
doing. Already people traveling in these BRT buses are experiencing
something unique - seeing the buses move faster than other auto vehicles on
the road, and that's how it should be.
Regards,
--
Sujit
On 3/17/07, Prof J G Krishnayya <sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in> wrote:
>
> Just an idea. Please shoot it down (with reasons) if it is impractical
> for India.
>
>
>
> Traffic in India drives on the left side of a road. In the case of a
> divided highway, one proposal is to run the BRTS in a separate lane (taking
> the place of the "Fast Lane", i.e. to the right hand edge of the left half
> of the road.
>
> This means that entry and exit from the busses would have to be to and
> from fresh islands in the road (since doors are on the left side of the bus)
> or else fresh doors would have to be cut into the bus, so that passengers
> can board and get off onto a central island..
>
> Actually, for reasons of flexibility, and if these are "Long" busses, with
> centre doors, it seems to me to make sense to strengthen the body and cut
> doors out on the right side of the bus. Then a single stop or station would
> exist at each location for both directions.
>
>
>
> An alternative, which I have not seen mentioned yet, is to run the BRTS
> busses on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. That is, busses going north would run
> in the grade-separated, "Fast lane" of the southbound side of the road. And
> busses going South would run in the fast lane of the northbound side of
> the divided highway. Then one would use the normal doors (on the left
> side of the bus), thus eliminating any need to strengthen the chassis.
>
>
>
> Pune experience within days of the start of BRTS makes it clear that with
> our population density, and general attitude towards discipline in general,
> Grade-Separation between the normal roadway (of at least 8 inches) and the
> BRTS lanes, is essential to avoid many, many fatal accidents. If the BRTS
> lane is grade-separated, there should be no problem about the BRTS busses
> running in the opposite direction to the regular stream of traffic.
>
>
>
> Contra-ideas, anyone?
>
>
>
> J G Krishnayya
>
> ==============
>
> Prof *J G Krishnayya*
>
> Director*, Systems Research Institute*,
>
> 17-A Gultekdi, PUNE 411037, India
>
> www.sripune.org Tel +91-20-2426-0323
>
> jkrishnayya at yahoo.com Res 020-2636-3930
>
> sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in Fax +91-20-2444-7902
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org[mailto:
> sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Alan Howes
> *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2007 6:00 PM
> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; edelman at greenidea.info
> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes
>
>
>
> Great minds ...
>
>
>
> I've just been reading the organisational bits of Bina's post rather more
> carefully. I still don't have a feel for how much clout the CWG has - OK the
> Gov of Maharashtra has accepted the CWG report - but does that guarantee
> action (not just commissioning consultants, but committing to
> implementation). And on a matter of detail, Bina says -
>
> "we at the MTSU have already submitted our report to the Government of
> Maharashtra- as long back as the 6th of February 2007"
>
> and then
>
> "The CWG Report was formally presented on the 6th of February, 2007, to
> all the departments ..."
>
>
>
> So I assume the consultants have not yet been appointed. I can't see them
> taking less than six months to report, and I would guess at least nine
> months for implementation, even at Western rates of action - what price bus
> lanes by the end of this year?
>
>
>
> Is the MTSU report the same as the CWG report? When was the CWG formed?
> Sorry to ask so many questions!
>
>
>
> Regards, Alan
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alan Howes
> Associate Transport Planner
> Colin Buchanan
> 4 St Colme Street
> Edinburgh EH3 6AA
> Scotland
> email: alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk
> tel: (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)
> (0)7952 464335 (mobile)
> fax: (0)131 220 0232
> www: http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=
> cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org [mailto:
> sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Brendan Finn
> *Sent:* 16 March 2007 11:32
> *To:* Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; edelman at greenidea.info
> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes
>
> Dear Alan,
>
>
>
> I think that's an excellent rule on three grounds :
>
>
>
> 1) It is simple and unambiguous
>
>
>
> 2) The participants always know which situation they are in, and whether
> they should yield. It is highly visible when a potential yield situation
> arises, no need for control systems.
>
>
>
> 3) The priority is to clear the bus stopping place to make room for
> incoming buses, so it is right that buses leaving the stopping area should
> have priority.
>
>
>
> With best wishes,
>
>
>
>
>
> Brendan.
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
> >From Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd. e-mail : etts at indigo.ie tel :
> +353.87.2530286
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Alan Howes <Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk>
>
> *To:* edelman at greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport<sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2007 10:52 AM
>
> *Subject:* [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke!
>
>
>
> I thought someone might think that! I take it what concerns you is the
> (two per stop) conflicts between buses moving in opposite directions?
>
> Remember that the buses will be moving slowly as they are about to stop or
> are just leaving the stop. I don't know offhand what the maximum bus flows
> are likely to be, but I would not have thought that even in Mumbai there
> would be more than 120 buses per hour - correct me someone if I'm wrong (I
> could do a check, but it would take some time). At that level I see no
> problem with a simple "give way" arrangement (e.g. incoming buses always
> give way to leaving buses) - you could have traffic signals, but IMO that
> would be an unnecessary expense.
>
> Regards, Alan
>
>
> --
> Alan Howes
> Associate Transport Planner
> Colin Buchanan
> 4 St Colme Street
> Edinburgh EH3 6AA
> Scotland
> email: alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk
> tel: (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)
> (0)7952 464335 (mobile)
> fax: (0)131 220 0232
> www: http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org[mailto:
> sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
> Sent: 16 March 2007 10:44
> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
> Subject: [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke!
>
> Alan Howes wrote:
> > [...] The problem, however, with with-flow bus lanes placed immediately
> to the left of the median is that, assuming bus stops are on the median, the
> bus doors are on the wrong side (an expensive problem to fix). MMRDA
> explained to me an ingenious proposal for overcoming this - at the stops the
> buses would swap sides, crossing the median through a gap immediately before
> and after the stop. This sounds perfectly feasible to me - the only
> potential problem I foresee is that the necessary gaps will be used
> (illegally) by other traffic, or even pedestrians (who get a pretty raw deal
> in terms of getting across the road).
> >
> That seems really dangerous unless there are electronic safety systems,
> etc. Am I missing something?
>
> - T
>
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Director
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Korunní 72
> CZ-10100 Praha 10
> Czech Republic
>
> ++420 605 915 970
> ++420 222 517 832
> Skype: toddedelman
>
> edelman at greenidea.eu
> http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain
>
> Green Idea Factory,
> a member of World Carfree Network
>
>
> ............................................................................................................................................................................................
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
> Unless you are the named addressee, or authorised to receive it for the
> addressee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you
> have received this email in error please contact the sender by replying to
> this email.
>
>
>
> Any views expressed by an individual within this email which do not
> constitute or record professional advice relating to the business of Colin
> Buchanan, do not necessarily reflect the views of the company. Any
> professional advice or opinion contained within this email is subject to our
> terms and conditions of business.
>
>
>
> We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software
> viruses. We do not accept liability for any loss or damage caused by
> software viruses.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via
> YAHOOGROUPS.
>
> Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to
> join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The
> yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the
> real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you
> can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
--
------------------------------------------------------
Sujit Patwardhan
sujit at vsnl.com
sujitjp at gmail.com
"Yamuna",
ICS Colony,
Ganeshkhind Road,
Pune 411 007
India
Tel: 25537955
-----------------------------------------------------
Hon. Secretary:
Parisar
www.parisar.org
------------------------------------------------------
Founder Member:
PTTF
(Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum)
www.pttf.net
------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20070320/8c47b09a/attachment.html
More information about the Sustran-discuss
mailing list