[sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes .... alternatively, why not run on the other side of the road-divider?

[Prof J G Krishnayya]

Just an idea. Please shoot it down (with reasons) if it is impractical
for India.
 
Traffic in India drives on the left side of a road. In the case of a
divided highway, one proposal is to run the BRTS in a separate lane
(taking the place of the “Fast Lane”, i.e. to the right hand edge of the
left half of the road.
This means that entry and exit from the busses would have to be to and
from fresh islands in the road (since doors are on the left side of the
bus) or else fresh doors would have to be cut into the bus, so that
passengers can board and get off onto a central island..
Actually, for reasons of flexibility, and if these are “Long” busses,
with centre doors, it seems to me to make sense to strengthen the body
and cut doors out on the right side of the bus. Then a single stop or
station would exist at each location for both directions.
 
An alternative, which I have not seen mentioned yet, is to run the BRTS
busses on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. That is, busses going north would
run in the grade-separated, “Fast lane” of the southbound side of the
road. And busses going South would run in the fast lane of the
northbound side of the divided highway.  Then one would use the normal
doors (on the left side of the bus), thus eliminating any need to
strengthen the chassis.
 
Pune experience within days of the start of BRTS makes it clear that
with our population density, and general attitude towards discipline in
general, Grade-Separation between the normal roadway (of at least 8
inches) and the BRTS lanes, is essential to avoid many, many fatal
accidents.  If the BRTS lane is grade-separated, there should be no
problem about the BRTS busses running in the opposite direction to the
regular stream of traffic.
 
Contra-ideas, anyone?
 
J G Krishnayya
==============
Prof J G Krishnayya
Director, Systems Research Institute,
17-A Gultekdi, PUNE 411037, India
www.sripune.org                 Tel +91-20-2426-0323
jkrishnayya at yahoo.com       Res 020-2636-3930
sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in       Fax +91-20-2444-7902
 
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Howes
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:00 PM
To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; edelman at greenidea.info
Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes
 
Great minds ...
 
I've just been reading the organisational bits of Bina's post rather
more carefully. I still don't have a feel for how much clout the CWG has
- OK the Gov of Maharashtra has accepted the CWG report - but does that
guarantee action (not just commissioning consultants, but committing to
implementation).  And on a matter of detail, Bina says - 
"we at the MTSU have already submitted our report to the Government of
Maharashtra- as long back as the 6th of February 2007"
and then
"The CWG Report was formally presented on the 6th of February, 2007, to
all the departments ..."
 
So I assume the consultants have not yet been appointed.  I can't see
them taking less than six months to report, and I would guess at least
nine months for implementation, even at Western rates of action - what
price bus lanes by the end of this year?
 
Is the MTSU report the same as the CWG report? When was the CWG formed?
Sorry to ask so many questions!
 
Regards, Alan
 
 
--
Alan Howes
Associate Transport Planner
Colin Buchanan 
4 St Colme Street
Edinburgh      EH3 6AA
Scotland
email:   <mailto:alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk> alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk
tel:      (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)
           (0)7952 464335  (mobile)
fax:     (0)131 220 0232
www: http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/
 
 
  _____  

From:
sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.
org] On Behalf Of Brendan Finn
Sent: 16 March 2007 11:32
To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport; edelman at greenidea.info
Subject: [sustran] Re: BRT - switchover lanes
Dear Alan, 
 
I think that's an excellent rule on three grounds : 
 
1) It is simple and unambiguous
 
2) The participants always know which situation they are in, and whether
they should yield. It is highly visible when a potential yield situation
arises, no need for control systems.
 
3) The priority is to clear the bus stopping place to make room for
incoming buses, so it is right that buses leaving the stopping area
should have priority.
 
With best wishes, 
 
 
Brendan.
________________________________________________________________________
_____________
>From Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd.   e-mail : etts at indigo.ie   tel :
+353.87.2530286
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alan <mailto:Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk>  Howes 
To: edelman at greenidea.info ; Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
<mailto:sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>  
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke!
 
I thought someone might think that! I take it what concerns you is the
(two per stop) conflicts between buses moving in opposite directions? 

Remember that the buses will be moving slowly as they are about to stop
or are just leaving the stop. I don't know offhand what the maximum bus
flows are likely to be, but I would not have thought that even in Mumbai
there would be more than 120 buses per hour - correct me someone if I'm
wrong (I could do a check, but it would take some time). At that level I
see no problem with a simple "give way" arrangement (e.g. incoming buses
always give way to leaving buses) - you could have traffic signals, but
IMO that would be an unnecessary expense. 

Regards, Alan


--
Alan Howes
Associate Transport Planner
Colin Buchanan 
4 St Colme Street
Edinburgh      EH3 6AA
Scotland
email:  alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk
tel:      (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)
           (0)7952 464335  (mobile)
fax:     (0)131 220 0232
www: http://www.cbuchanan.co.uk/


-----Original Message-----
From:
sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.
org] On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
Sent: 16 March 2007 10:44
To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: (NEWS) Mumbai's BRTS project turns into a joke!

Alan Howes wrote:
> [...] The problem, however, with with-flow bus lanes placed
immediately to the left of the median is that, assuming bus stops are on
the median, the bus doors are on the wrong side (an expensive problem to
fix). MMRDA explained to me an ingenious proposal for overcoming this -
at the stops the buses would swap sides, crossing the median through a
gap immediately before and after the stop. This sounds perfectly
feasible to me - the only potential problem I foresee is that the
necessary gaps will be used (illegally) by other traffic, or even
pedestrians (who get a pretty raw deal in terms of getting across the
road).
>   
That seems really dangerous unless there are electronic safety systems,
etc. Am I missing something?

- T

-- 

--------------------------------------------

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Director
Green Idea Factory

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Czech Republic

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