From richmond at alum.mit.edu Wed Nov 8 07:56:19 2006 From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:56:19 +0100 (Romance Standard Time) Subject: [sustran] Advertizing! Message-ID: I am using the list now for some blatant advertizing -- hope that's ok! I am currently a visiting professor in Paris, teaching an interesting group of students, including quite a number from French-speaking Africa, from whom I am learning a good deal -- reinforcing my belief that the key to change in transport development is institutional. I spent September as an advisor to the Government of Mauritius, doing something quite special, and this is what I'd like to market. I have had connections with Mauritius for some time -- I went there for the World Bank nine years ago -- but over the intervening years little has been implemented in the transportation arena. I therefore proposed a novel approach. Because simply doing studies (of which there have been huge numbers, including my own!) did not seem to produce useful results, perhaps a better approach would be to try to bring together local factions. If a consensus could be forged, whether or not it might seem "optimal" from a technical perspective, perhaps at least that would be a basis for productive action. So, funded by the African Development Bank, I spent a month in Mauritius. First, I met a series of parties working or interested in transport. Then I chaired a two-part forum to try to achieve consensus. In the first part a large selection of possible policy approaches was presented. In the second one, I tried to have the group focus on which of those policies were most acceptable to most of the group. I encouraged bargaining to reach agreement. For example, if some representatives did not like a particular proposal, they were encouraged to amend it. If a proposal had a negative effect on a particular party, that party was encouraged to offer to support proposals attractive to other members of the group in return for having the unattractive proposal dismissed. I provided guidance for the discussion to ensure that the set of options the group might endorse was coherent, and to try to bring people together for mutual advantage -- and to the benefit of the country as a whole. The second part was a whole-day event, and quite exhausting as well as exhilerating. By the end of the day, nineteen out of twenty participants had reached agreement. They signed the set of agreed proposals, which were then transmitted to the Cabinet for discussion and possible action. I believe this approach has value in many developing countries where technical studies have not resulted in a basis for moving forward, and where inadequate efforts are usually made to settle local disagreements and to provide a focus for action. I am one of the few people who combine the sort of people-oriented approach used by major management consulting companies with knowledge of transport issues, so I am hoping this might be of interest to international development agencies and other organizations that do work in transportation. If any of you have leads for me, I would much appreciate having them. Thanks! --Jonathan! ----- Jonathan Richmond Visiting Professor Logistique, Transport et Tourisme Conservatiore National des Arts et Metiers 5 rue du Vertbois 75141 Paris Cedex 03 France Home: 40 rue Paul Delinge 95880 Enghien-les-Bains France 1 (617) 395-4360 (US number forwards and rings in France. All calls billed as if to Massachusetts) e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ From Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk Wed Nov 8 18:03:32 2006 From: Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk (Alan Howes) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:03:32 -0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: Advertizing! Message-ID: <324DCD7680954F468CF306EE5404F00102D45E76@mail01.cbuchanan.co.uk> Sounds a good approach - but Jonathan, do you think there is now a significantly greater chance of anything happening? Did your group include the real decision-makers? Alan -- Alan Howes Associate Transport Planner Colin Buchanan 4 St Colme Street Edinburgh EH3 6AA Scotland email: alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk tel: (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard) (0)7952 464335 (mobile) fax: (0)131 220 0232 www: http:/www.cbuchanan.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc. org] On Behalf Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond Sent: 07 November 2006 22:56 To: Sustran List Subject: [sustran] Advertizing! I am using the list now for some blatant advertizing -- hope that's ok! I am currently a visiting professor in Paris, teaching an interesting group of students, including quite a number from French-speaking Africa, from whom I am learning a good deal -- reinforcing my belief that the key to change in transport development is institutional. I spent September as an advisor to the Government of Mauritius, doing something quite special, and this is what I'd like to market. I have had connections with Mauritius for some time -- I went there for the World Bank nine years ago -- but over the intervening years little has been implemented in the transportation arena. I therefore proposed a novel approach. Because simply doing studies (of which there have been huge numbers, including my own!) did not seem to produce useful results, perhaps a better approach would be to try to bring together local factions. If a consensus could be forged, whether or not it might seem "optimal" from a technical perspective, perhaps at least that would be a basis for productive action. So, funded by the African Development Bank, I spent a month in Mauritius. First, I met a series of parties working or interested in transport. Then I chaired a two-part forum to try to achieve consensus. In the first part a large selection of possible policy approaches was presented. In the second one, I tried to have the group focus on which of those policies were most acceptable to most of the group. I encouraged bargaining to reach agreement. For example, if some representatives did not like a particular proposal, they were encouraged to amend it. If a proposal had a negative effect on a particular party, that party was encouraged to offer to support proposals attractive to other members of the group in return for having the unattractive proposal dismissed. I provided guidance for the discussion to ensure that the set of options the group might endorse was coherent, and to try to bring people together for mutual advantage -- and to the benefit of the country as a whole. The second part was a whole-day event, and quite exhausting as well as exhilerating. By the end of the day, nineteen out of twenty participants had reached agreement. They signed the set of agreed proposals, which were then transmitted to the Cabinet for discussion and possible action. I believe this approach has value in many developing countries where technical studies have not resulted in a basis for moving forward, and where inadequate efforts are usually made to settle local disagreements and to provide a focus for action. I am one of the few people who combine the sort of people-oriented approach used by major management consulting companies with knowledge of transport issues, so I am hoping this might be of interest to international development agencies and other organizations that do work in transportation. If any of you have leads for me, I would much appreciate having them. Thanks! --Jonathan! ----- Jonathan Richmond Visiting Professor Logistique, Transport et Tourisme Conservatiore National des Arts et Metiers 5 rue du Vertbois 75141 Paris Cedex 03 France Home: 40 rue Paul Delinge 95880 Enghien-les-Bains France 1 (617) 395-4360 (US number forwards and rings in France. All calls billed as if to Massachusetts) e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From sudhir at secon.in Wed Nov 8 20:20:00 2006 From: sudhir at secon.in (Sudhir) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:50:00 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Advertizing! References: Message-ID: <000b01c70327$d4705d10$d607a8c0@SA152A> Dear Sir, What you have said is not exactly true for developing countries like India. There is severe resource crunch and there is huge competition among various sectors for the resources. Moreover it is extremely difficult to convince the decision makers by the technical persons for the necessary infrastructure decisions. By the time the government takes the decision, its five-year term closes and a new government is sworn in. It is not always the Benefit-Cost analysis that is the basis for a selection of a Project. Regards Sudhir India From richmond at alum.mit.edu Wed Nov 8 23:12:31 2006 From: richmond at alum.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:12:31 +0100 (Romance Standard Time) Subject: [sustran] Re: Advertizing! In-Reply-To: <000b01c70327$d4705d10$d607a8c0@SA152A> References: <000b01c70327$d4705d10$d607a8c0@SA152A> Message-ID: Yes, Sudhir, and that is exactly what I said! My approach was tried precisely because, as you say, benefit-cost analysis is often not the basis for decision-making. Instead, I aimed at forming consensus amongst a diverse group of interested parties on a series of measures which had a chance of actually coming into existence --Jonathan On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Sudhir wrote: > Dear Sir, > > > > What you have said is not exactly true for developing countries like India. > > There is severe resource crunch and there is huge competition among various > sectors for the resources. Moreover it is extremely difficult to convince > the decision makers by the technical persons for the necessary > infrastructure decisions. > > By the time the government takes the decision, its five-year term closes and > a new government is sworn in. > > It is not always the Benefit-Cost analysis that is the basis for a > selection of a Project. > > > > Regards > > Sudhir > > India > > > ----- Jonathan Richmond Visiting Professor Logistique, Transport et Tourisme Conservatiore National des Arts et Metiers 5 rue du Vertbois 75141 Paris Cedex 03 France Home: 40 rue Paul Delinge 95880 Enghien-les-Bains France 1 (617) 395-4360 (US number forwards and rings in France. All calls billed as if to Massachusetts) e-mail: richmond@alum.mit.edu http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/ From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Thu Nov 9 17:34:11 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:34:11 +0100 Subject: [sustran] The New Mobility Agenda - Focus programs and peer discussions Message-ID: <003501c703d9$d8388dc0$6501a8c0@Home> Dear Friends, If you follow the discussions here, it may be useful for you to know a bit more about how the New Mobility Agenda websites and focus discussion groups are organized. The following note intends to do that job. We have talked about email overload in the past, and just below you will see our suggestions on how to avoid that unpleasant state of affairs. Eric Britton The New Mobility Agenda ? Focus programs and peer discussions The New Mobility Agenda has a twenty year track record as a fully independent, open, and diversified world wide collaborative peer program concerned with showing how progress can be made, step by careful step, toward more sustainable communities and lives by creating more human and more efficient transportation arrangements. The Agenda has been organized into a cluster of related but specific focus groups -- each with its own targeted concerns, working style and membership base. For each program (indicated here in large font), there is a corresponding discussion forum and shared library which can be reached directly in all cases via the top menu (where it may be marked as Forum, Caf?, or Idea Factory). The discussions are lightly but firmly moderated to ensure that they keep on track, produce more light than heat, and generally provide good value for the busy participants. See the final section of this note for a few use hints. Welcoming Note: Before actually participating actively in any of the groups, we invite you most energetically to read our Welcoming Note here. Also: There are pretty good internal Search tools in most of the following. These help to turn what are otherwise just ephemeral one-time messages into useful and in many cases quite substantial databases. Give it a try using your selected keywords. Email overload?: Some busy readers may wish to sign into the Daily Digests, particularly for the New Mobility Idea Factory and the Lots Less Cars Caf?, both of which can get quite busy from time to time and generate what may to some prove an uncomfortable flow of email and references. No problem. Click to the forum in question, go to ?Edit Membership? on their top menu, click and put yourself down for the Daily Digest, preferably in their quite nice ?Fully Featured? version. The New Mobility Agenda (The Politics of Transportation.) ? at http://www.newmobility.org The New Mobility Idea Factory, opened its virtual doors in 1988 as the Access Caf?, offering a free, public, flexible discussion space for our international peers, concerned citizens and groups who feel that our transport systems need to be, and can be made to be, more sustainable and more just -- and who wish to freely exchange ideas and information about it. Unlike most generally similar fora the focus is above all on the Politics of Transportation. The orientation of the exchanges is strategic, informed and generally sober if often quite contentious. Kyoto World Cities 20/20 Challenge : -- http://www.kyotocities.org The Kyoto Cities Forum Since 2004 a reserved area for announcements and discussions in support of Kyoto World Cities Program, Organized around a single question: "What can you do in your city to reduce traffic and its negative impacts dramatically (say on the order of 20%) in a very short period (we propose 20 months), and within your existing transportation budget." Lots Less Cars in Cities Idea Factory ? http://www.lotslesscars.org Lots Less Cars Forum "What we are looking at here is not quite zero cars (in most places) but, let us say, many fewer cars in our cities, a more tranquil environment, and a lot more safe and happy people." Free flow exchanges & shared information on how to address and achieve "less car" solutions to the challenges of transport in cities. Lots on non-motorized transport and traffic reduction measures. And lots of disagreement. Quite activist, rather informal and laid-back. New Mobility Advisory/Briefs ? at http://newmobilitybriefs.org The New Mobility Idea Factory serves as the forum for the Briefs. Informs and advises local government and concerned agencies about measures and policy options which can get visible results within a time horizon of two to three years. Supported by Accelerated Learning Sessions which tackle key topics in intense three day workshops, the first being organized in Monaco for European subscribers and other s interested from 29-31 March 2007: The Monaco New Mobility Policy Dialogues: Accelerated Learning for City Managers, Planners and Decision-makers World Transport Policy & Practice ? http://www.wtransport.org The World Transport Forum goes back more than a decade, and at present serves more than five hundred transportation experts, activists and policy makers world wide. The main business of the forum is to provide support and interactive discussion space for the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice. For exchanges of a more general nature on the transport-environment theme try the New Mobility Agenda and its Idea Factory. Global South Mobility ? http://www.globalsouthmobility.org Global South - Sustran Network : Global South Mobility provides a Collaborative relay station for world-wide information and discussions. The forum is run by Sustran - the Sustainable Transport Action Network for Asia & the Pacific -- an email discussion list devoted to people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). Sustran: a major discussion forum on urban transport in developing countries." Discussions are well focused, expert-based and of very high quality. The Gender, Equity and Transport Forum - http://www.gatnet.net/ GATNET - Gender and Transport - This is the discussion group of a community of practice that began with a program on mainstreaming Gender into the World Bank's Transport Sector. It is open to all those who are interested in issues relating to improving mobility and access for poor women, children and men in developing countries. World Carshare Consortium ? http://worldcarshare.com Carshare Caf? : This free, cooperative, independent, international communications program supports carsharing projects and programs, world wide. Since 1997 it offers a convenient place on the web to gather and share information and independent views on projects and approaches, past, present and planned future, freely and easily available to all comers. World Car Free Days ? http://worldcarfreeday.com The Lots Less Cars in Cities Forum ? also serves for Car Free Day exchanges. This program resulted directly from the early work of the New Mobility Agenda, which led to an international call for days without cars in October 1994 in a new mobility congress in Toledo Spain. This wide open program looks at Car Free Day projects around the world and tries to determine if they are working, not working, useful or in need of a real overhaul. Critical discussion with at least half of the members convinced that all this is a good idea. But only half. xTransit: New ways of getting there - http://www.xtransit.org/ xTransit Idea Factory for small vehicle transit- Another joker, this one given over to what we believe to be one of the most important single transport modes for the future, small vehicle systems, usually independently owned and operated, and prime targets for technology and supportive rethinking of legislation and relationships with the rest of the system. Getting people in and around cities in road vehicles, smaller than full sized buses, driven by real human beings, dynamically shared with others, and aided by state of the art communications technologies -- and all of that as no less than the only way to offer "car like" mobility in most of our 21st century cities without killing the cities themselves (the good old old mobility way). The Land Cafe: Putting Value Capture to Wor k ? http://www.landcafe.org The Land Caf? : But how are we ever going to pay for all this? Check out our very busy Land Cafe if you are on the lookout for new thinking on this critical topic. An informal, shared, public interest, knowledge-building consortium -- supported by The Commons as an independent Open Society project, specifically to serve and bring together people and groups around the world who are concerned to find practical ways for our societies to come to grips with the troubling but important issues of value capture and land tax reform in an age in which important public services remain substantially under-funded. Children on the Move!: Small Steps to Sustainable Lives ? http://ecoplan.org/children The Small-Steps Forum: If children cannot get around safely and with full independence in our communities, then we are in real trouble. If there is a mine canary to the New Mobility Agenda and the challenges behind it, this is it. You have a framework here you can work with and the next step is to extend the net to bring in a couple of hundred concerned citizens like you (our proven critical mass to get anything done in this fora.) Dig in. Get involved. Make the future. * * * Videos, audio, media: You will find that many of these programs are supported by a variety other than print media, valuable components of the tool kit needed if we are to move toward more sustainable cities. You will find this information in the respective sites. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061109/168ac65b/attachment.html From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Thu Nov 9 18:55:12 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:55:12 +0100 Subject: [sustran] New Mobility Agenda Forum use hints & good practices - final note for colleagues Message-ID: <00e201c703e5$286bb550$6501a8c0@Home> Dear Friends, This is the final note in this series which is intended to make our fora more useful and easier to use for you and your colleagues. Nine out of ten of you show that you fully understand all this, but it is I hope a useful reminder for us all. These are not must more ?chat sessions? and it really does help if we all keep that in mind. Thanks for being patient and helping in this. We all benefit in the end. Eric Britton Forum use hints & good practices _____ ? Participation ? Message Procedures & Etiquette ? Message Search ? List Monitoring ? Time starved? _____ Welcome to our shared Communications Center and Library for this specialized program under The Commons. If you intend to participate in the email discussions, or the posting of materials to the Library or Links & Media sections, please to be sure to read this short section carefully. {I realize that this is a terrible terrible bore. But please give it five minutes; it will make life really much easier and more efficient -- for you and for the others. Think of it as warming up before you launch, full blooded and raring to go, into the sport of your choice. Now, off we go!) Participation and Email Frequency Participation makes it easy to access the Public Library, link & Media and other sections of the Forum (Caf? or Idea Factory) , as well as receiving messages of the list into your own email box, in the manner you prefer. To become a member, you are invited to send an empty email to the postmaster@ecoplan.org indicating which group you wish to join. After a short while you will receive a confirmation, unless there is a technical problem with your address. When you have signed up you can elect to receive feedback from this site in any of four forms: (a) Individual emails. To receive all individual email messages. (b) Daily digest: To receive all emails for the day in one message. (c) Special notices. Only send important update emails from group moderator. (d) Don't send me email, I'll read the messages on the site at leisure. If your time is short, we strongly recommend the Daily Digest, and while you are at it opt for the "Fully Featured" version. Very clean and efficient. To accomplish that, all you have to do is check into your forum, where you will see at the top of the YahooGroups page a link, Edit Membership. From there on you will see. If you wish to leave the list at any time, just send a blank email to ? (forum-name)-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Message Procedures & Etiquette In this day of titanic, paralyzing information overload, here are a few small suggestions which I would strongly suggest you bear in mind as you work with our fora and discussion groups. It will make use the whole process more efficient for you and for all those hundreds of time-pressed colleagues who come here. ? 1. Stay on focus: And bear in mind that this is one of a series of more or less focused websites and discussion groups, and we try hard to keep each of them in its chosen focus. To understand this, in case you do not already, I suggest that you click here to our page "Focus programs and peer discussions". You'll see there how all this is intended to work. ? 2. Make sure you are replying to the correct party. When you answer a group message, your answer will in many cases be sent to all the members of the list. If you wish the sender only to receive your answer, please click on the "Forward" button instead of "Respond" and copy the sender's email address into the "To" box. Remember, there is no feeling so "sinking" as when a personal message goes instead to 500 busy, possibly unhappy people. We would ask you to be extremely careful about distinguishing between: a. Basically personal messages (such as a thank you note, a specific question or an observation intended for this or that person) which are best addressed to your individual correspondent, and b. Communications to the group as a whole. ? 3. Exception Information is the rule here: We are all asked to bear in mind that our colleagues are very busy people and we want to make sure that whatever comes out of this forum (I) they do not receive more than a handful messages a week on average and (ii), more important, that what is distributed to the group is quite literally "exception information", i.e., communications which address issues which are of high common interest. I hate to say it, but when we see people being a bit too casual in their choice of mode, our list administrator actually goes in and picks off what we think to be a bit too personal and indicate this to them as such. This may strike you as a bit priggish on our part and indeed is a bit of a bore to actually do; but we think it's better that than overloading people who have a lot of real work to do and who see this as a useful tool and not one more wasteful Internet chore. ? 4. "Judicious snipping": Take care to avoid promiscuous copying content of earlier communications Please do not simply copy and pass on the content of all previous communications. Nobody, nobody likes to wade through this stuff. Moreover, it obscures the point of your message for those whose time is important. Where you need to cite an earlier note for context purposes, please do this in a sparing and structured way ("judicious snipping" we call it). We will all appreciate your thoughtfulness. ? 5. Copying email addresses: Please do not copy emails to the list in which you indicate the email addresses of colleagues under the cc. heading. This is a potential disservice to them and can lead to their addresses being picked up and then bombarded by lurkers or hackers, which of course you do not wish to be the cause of. ? 6. Retain Subject Headings: Once a discussion of any given topic has got underway, it really helps for later reference purposes if you kindly retain the original subject heading. (This is because this heading in one of the main ways in which we can recall any given dialogue and exchange around that topic, a process of recall which we believe is extremely important to the extent to which this collective intellectual patrimony is available to be mined for subsequent uses. Likewise, if you note that the subject heading is preceded by a FWD: or Re: in any given case, it's a good idea to delete this so that your message will enter into the correct repertory.) ? 7. Long signature lines. No more than three lines please, all in. Once you have introduced yourself to the group on joining, we all know who you are and don't need all that garble about when, where and why. Screen space and time are scarce commodities, so let's keep an eye on this small courtesy. ? 8. Message format, fonts and color. It is a real courtesy if you avoid background colors, large fonts or funky signatures when writing the groups. ? 9. How many messages should YOU be posting to the group? Certainly no more than two or three per week please. In exceptional cases let's get together and figure out a strategy (since there are other options including our several "caf?s".) Thank you. ? 10. Show respect: Just like our grandmothers told us. Do not mock others, do not allow your anger to show, do not make ad hominem or personal remarks, do not pontificate and don't be a wise guy. Remember half the people here are smarter and know more about the subject than you (or I) do. Many of them have been at this for years and have made important contributions, They are not newbies by any stretch of the imagination, so be careful when you think you may be telling them something they have not already thought of. The odds are they have. So a bit of modesty and, as we say over here, 'retenue' will make your grandmother proud (always a good objective). ? 11. Other guidelines to keep in mind: ? Please proof-read your submissions. The time you take is magnified 500-fold in time savings by readers in trying to understand your points. ? Don't send very long messages, papers, or binary files to the list; rather, post a summary in straight text, offering to send to those requesting it the longer or coded document. Such requests should always be OFF-LIST (to the person offering it, not the whole list). Another good alternative is to point people to a website with your material. ? When referring to research or statements, try to cite them, either a bibliographic or web reference. ? Cool off: If you feel yourself getting heated about what another has written, consider sending that to only that person, not the entire list. This keeps the recipient from feeling as defensive and possibly escalating the exchange into a conflagration. ? After joining, don't post for a couple weeks, so that you can get a sense of the style of the list. Your first post might contain a short (one para.) introduction of yourself, but this is not required (when lists first start, introductions are the best way to get things started). To conclude: I think it's not a bad assumption to hold in mind that at least half the people here are smarter than you are and smarter than me) and know more about the subject. Such a collection of wonderful concerned citizens and colleagues deserve a little time and attention. And hey! they will do the same for you. Enhanced Message Search At this point, after more than a decade of exchanges among our world wide colleagues we now have more than ten thousand past communications stored in these sites, a valuable resource if you are trying to get up to speed on all these international reactions and goings on. How to use it? Well, try this With the advanced Message Search functionality, finding a particular message is not only easier, but much faster. We've updated this by integrating powerful Yahoo! Search algorithms - this results in an accelerated search experience for you. Message Search now comprehensively screens the entire message archive of a group, no matter how many messages have been posted. What's more, new Message Search includes an "Advanced" search feature. This feature allows you to drill down on a number of fields to make it easier to find that lost message. You can use the options on this page to create a very specific search -- simply refine message search in your group by: ? Date. You can add a specific point on the calendar and have a search performed before or after that time. Or, search a date range. ? Author. Include the name of the sender and all messages from that name will be returned. You can also exclude a specific sender name from the search. ? Subject. Add any words from a subject line and it will be returned. You can also exclude specific words from the subject line too. ? Message Body. Add any words from the body of a message and the relevant messages will be returned to you in your search results. Again here you can also exclude specific words from your search. List Monitoring For better or worse, this is a "monitored" list. We do this, not because we like it, and certainly not because we enjoy playing that role, but in order to protect our subscribers and work partners from various forms of abuse and e-overload. On the one hand, we provide an additional screen to help protect from various forms of spam that occasionally manage to get through the generally pretty good YahooGroups controls. And in addition, we occasionally find ourselves constrained to reject letters that have been penned perhaps a bit too aggressively for our taste, or simply send out a reminder in instances in which someone has either sent to the group a communication that would be better routed to a specific individual, or loaded down his note with unnecessary encumbering copied material. Every once in a while we may unintentionally strike a nerve, but by and large this seems to work so we'll keep on doing it. Time Starved? (And who isn't?) 1. Go for the Daily Digest (see above). You do this by going to the forum, and clicking the Edit Membership link toward the top. There you can one click to the Digest. We also recommend that a bit further down on the page you opt for the Fully Featured version. Quite nice really. 2. Faster yet: This may surprise but it works really very well. What you get for all the fora you wish to follow (and I do this for each of the dozen we work with) is a morning summary of all messages posted within each forum in which you participate and receive email. Here is what you see on your http://my.yahoo.com/ page when you sign in in the morning. (More on how you do this just below.) This is the summary I found when clicking in on Tuesday 25 July 2006. (What is sweet about this is that on the page you can click directly to the article you wish to read and it brings you into the full content of the entry). _____ ? London traffic - 11 hours ago I agree with Roland that economists do not always understand what cities are about, and I also think that in all markets they focus too much on pricing ? "Moving forward : towards better urban transport" - in the open vide - 18 hours ago If you go to our in-process New Mobility Video Libraries, you will see three great entries just posted by Paul Barter. The details on this three part entry ? London traffic - 18 hours ago Hi I think the statement that public transport SHOULD be provided on a commercial basis is possibly a bit too strong. The economics of cities is a challenging ? Bus subsidies - 18 hours ago Buses and trains may have external costs, but extra passengers on them occupying seats that would otherwise be empty don't -- not significant ones, anyway. ? Urban cyclists looking for a lane of their own - 21 hours ago I have found the recent stuff about Shared Space/Naked Streets very simulating. And now Chris Bradshaw's CURBBBB suggesting is intriguing (as are many of his ? [The New Mobility ThinkPad] Ending our mediocrity - A planner's-eye - 22 hours ago Note from the editor: From Canada here is a very thoughtful 'planner's eye view' of what a good city is supposed to be all about. From our perspective ? London traffic - 22 hours ago Public transport should be provided on a commercial basis once cars and planes are properly priced and regulated (regulating car includes bus priorities, ? Vancouver Map Measures Walkability - 1 day ago By Jeff Nagel Black Press Jul 19 2006 Downtown Vancouver and New Westminster are by far the biggest, most walkable parts of the region, according to a new ? Urban cyclists looking for a lane of their own - 2 days ago I think Chris's idea is innovative and interesting (although in my live-and-let-live vision, cities would be full of shared spaces, with road-users interacting ? Are bicycles good for the environment? - 2 days ago Zvi, On 21 Jul 2006, at 16:01, ... I'm not so sure... At least in the UK, I would say that walkers would go to more local _____ To get on line with this, all you have to do is go to the bottom of the home page of the Forum (Caf? or Idea Factory) and there you will see an icon marked My Yahoo. Click and take it from there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061109/61044727/attachment.html From Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org Tue Nov 14 18:42:16 2006 From: Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo SUTP) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:42:16 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Fuel prices worldwide survey Message-ID: <000801c707d1$30593360$0200a8c0@archibaldo> Dear colleagues, The high price of crude oil continues to be an issue of concern all over the world. International studies of the effects of oil price rises are being carried out, but are hampered by the poor quality of the data. GTZ?s Fuel Price Survey continues to provide the only available summary of developing countries? fuel price policies (PDF download: www.gtz.de/fuelprices). Therefore, the Deutsche Gesellschaft f?r Technische Zusammenarbeit GmbH -- German Technical Cooperation (GTZ) -- with its global network of projects in 135 countries, regional offices and representations in 64 developing countries, publishes a bi-annual study on the global fuel sector since 1999. This year, the international survey of current fuel prices will again be carried out. We would be happy if you could contribute to the success of this survey by informing us of the prevailing prices of petrol and diesel fuel in your country on the survey date of 15 November 2006. New to this year?s survey is the option of submitting the price data via the online form ( www.sutp.org/fuelprices). Basically, everyone is invited to participate. However, we would appreciate it if you could log in the prices as applicable in the capital city of your country. If you are interested in providing us with more diversified data (e.g. for other cities or specific purposes), please send an email to armin.wagner@gtz.de. Your email address is required for verification purposes only. We should like to thank you in advance for taking part in this year?s price survey. In the event of any queries please contact Armin Wagner ( armin.wagner@gtz.de). Carlos F. Pardo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061114/32a3ce14/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Wed Nov 15 00:41:40 2006 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:41:40 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Wafrika waamke - African Transport Survival Forum Message-ID: <053d01c70803$643816b0$6401a8c0@Home> Now, dear friends, here is a challenge truly worthy of your genius, imagination and compassion - swapping ideas and views about the usefulness of somehow creating or supporting an African Transport Survival "Forum". Martin Strid sets it out for us in the attached note, which places this 'nth banal transport advisory proposal' in a most troubling context, which is in fact what the real world is giving us all to work with. It is my view that if we are not able to keep all these matters in mind, we and those concerned would really be quite unprepared to understand and make wise decisions concerning the specific issues to which this forum might in time be addressed. Before we move ahead I would like to draw your attention to a sadly all too typical 'old mobility' initiative in another part fo the world via the following (below) recent article from the New York Times on "Delays mire U.S. road project in Aceh". I know that there are plenty of Afircan examples of misplaced zeal along these lines but this happens to be one that is immediately at hand. The message is both clear, and universal. So what happens now? Well for starters, let me propose (a) not too fast and (b) together. Also we will from the beginning need to find as many black Africans to get involved here, since otherwise it's just one more exercise of good hearted but hey! neo-colonial do-gooding. This is not to say that the lessons that are to be learned from such a group exercise will be limited to Africa alone, most will surely be universal. But we can't have this as one more Mzungu* grandstand. Can we? And we can't have this as a male-centric and driven project either. Can we? The heart of Africa beats in the breast of its women. Your thoughts on this? Eric Britton PS. Here is what Jeraldi from the Kamuis project (http://research.yale.edu/swahili/learn/?q=en/node/244) has to say about this word. "Mzungu" shares its stem with the verb "kuzungua" or "kuzunguka". Both of which basically mean to go around, wander around, run around here and there, etc. The "m" on the front changes it into "one who...." so "mzungu" basically means "one who wanders around" or "one who runs around here and there in a restless manner". To understand why this word is used to describe white people in general, one needs to visit East Africa and observe the differences between the visiting white people and the locals. In general, the locals take their time in their daily activities. They might visit a friend for a couple hours, sit through a 4 hour church service, visit with 5 people on their way home without being in a rush, etc. In contrast, the white people generally seem to be in a rush to get somewhere and do things and tend to have a more business-like or hurried manner. These are of course gross generalizations that don't apply to everyone but they are pretty accurate. It pretty much boils down to the difference between what's called island time, Africa time, etc. which is a more slow-paced lifestyle, and I guess American time, European time, etc. which is a more fast-paced lifestyle. -----Original Message----- From: martin.strid@vv.se [mailto:martin.strid@vv.se] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:05 PM To: eric.britton@ecoplan.org Subject: Wafrika waamke Eric, Legis vian resumon pri la diversaj diskutejoj mi hodiau. Proponon mi havas kaj vershajne vi havas opinion respondan pri ghi. Temas pri la forgesita kontinento, nia komuna praorigino kaj malricha najbaro de Europo: In view of the coming, perhaps imminent (according to Mr Samsam Bakhtiari, http://www.peakoil.net) oil shortage crisis, there are a number of issues for Africans to deal with: - How to get rid of colonial heritage: inefficient bureaucracies, crazy borders (that generate civil wars), foreign education systems and the ever-present inferiority complex towards Mzungu power. - How to get rid of criminal regimes and armies financed by more or less illegal trade with natural resources, especially mineral resources. - How to gain democratic control over those resources, in spite of the growing greed of exocontinentals. - How to avoid the worst scenarios of starvation due to climate change and resource depletion. - How to develop and implement, on a massive scale, sustainable cooking (and other energy technology) based on direct sun heat. - How to develop a sustainable transportation system in the very few years between now and oil depletion. The issue includes agricultural production, food distribution, public transport, cycling and road maintenance. - How to organise sustainable democratic societies based on a balanced human ecology, local cultures and the general use of African languages (imperative for self confidence and real progress). Kwa sababu mpaka sasa, wazungu wamegaia na wamenyeta na wafrika wamelipa na wamelia. Kompreneble ne povus unu sendolisto tiujn problemojn solvi. Sed almenau la transportan parton oni povus komencigi. And please watch out so that it does not become a mainly South African affair. South African society is half European and certainly not representative of East, Central or West Africa. (Even if they are among the all too few African countries where an African language is allowed to be used officially). So, how about making an AL'VOKO for an African transport survival forum? Polyglotte? Amike, # :-) _____ I would like to invite comments on this piece that appeared in yesterday's New York Times, which to my mind in hugely rich with lessons that we all will do very poorly indeed to ignore. The piece suggests some of the contradictions, but really should have scratched further, because none of these are accidents. They are part of a greater whole that we will do well to understand, not only in rural countryside's in the Global South, but also in the streets and roads of the so-called 'developed nations'. Here are the first couple of thoughts that come to mind that I hope will serve to stir you to more and better: 1. One of the great problems that the Old Mobility folk (and if that is not clear may I invite you to check into the Old Mobility section of the New Mobility Advisory/Briefs - you will find it if you click to http://www.oldmobility.newmobility.org/ ) have with the challenges of human beings and social complexity, as opposed to the nice smooth world of vehicle throughput and its kissing cousin speed, is that straight lines, heavy loads and higher speeds are not necessarily the best solution to the problems of a complex democratic society. 2. The assumption of the experts and ultimately the politicians and administrators who made up this entire project is that the old US model is what "these people' need. A quarter of a billion taxpayer dollars (hey, that's MY money) buying them (whether they want it or not) a 'high standard' US road at a million dollars a kilometer (please, try to imagine what could be done with this money if the real problems and priorities had been addressed! But no, let's start with our solution and who cares about the problem. Eh? Oh how heavy it is the White Man's Burden. (Did anyone think to explain to them that it's 2006 and the rules of the game have changed?) 3. What strikes me in the first place and above all is that the right road under these circumstances would NEVER go in a straight line. For all kinds of reasons. * First, it ignores the social and cultural topography, something that is every bit as important in any society as the physical landscape. All those signals that the protesting locals are giving are in fact part of the solution, not part of the problem. * Second, straight lines inevitably induce speed. So out they go. We need to design roads that will both accommodate basic needs and ensure the well being of all those whom it is intended to serve. * Third, a high speed road induces the kid of rolling stock that takes advantage of the potential for high speed and heavy loads. But is that what we really want and need in this and thousands of other contexts - and not only in rural communities of the Third World. * Fourth, lower speeds - much lower speeds in fact, and I would need to hear some convincing arguments indeed for designing such roads to accommodate more than 30 kph speeds - permit the road to accommodate many of its traditional economic and social roles. Vendors including of local produce, tire and vehicle repair, and of courses all kinds of walkers who are not only numerous but very important. And all this on the streets of New York City or serving people and the economy in Aceh! 4. A good road will serve the full range of social roels and needs. In poorer countries in this new and one would dearly like to think more aware century, the favored transportation should be what most people can afford - human powered means, for both personal and goods traffic. You can design and build for that and while I am not an engineer I bet that you can get a lot more than a kilometer of such appropriate roads for a million dollars than just one. At this point let me get out of the way and invite you to read on. But once you have had your look, I would like to invite you to have a look at a few videos that we have set aside for your attention in this context only this morning. It's pretty simple stuff by way of presentation, but the messages are anything but. To get to them, please click to http://newmobilitybriefs.org , then on the left menu The Challenge/Old Mobility videos -you'll see. And now your comments? Eric Britton Delays mire U.S. road project in Aceh By Jane Perlez The New York Times Published: October 8, 2006 KEUTAPANG, Indonesia A $245 million stretch of blacktop intended to be the signature good-will gesture from the American people to survivors of the 2004 tsunami has instead become a parable of the problems of Aceh's recovery. Construction of the 240-kilometer road, about 150 miles, along the devastated coast has yet to start, stalled by a host of obstacles, like acquiring right of way through residential and farm land; schools; and, particularly sensitive, several hundred graves of mystical and religious significance. Though villagers welcome the idea, some have reservations about an American-style thoroughfare with a wide shoulder on either side that will replace the ribbon of churned dirt and mud. Villagers say they fear speeding traffic - they have thrown rocks at fast-moving cars of foreign aid workers - and want to be able to sell snacks and tea from stalls snug by the roadside, as they have always done. The difficulties of getting started on the road, one of the largest infrastructure projects in Indonesia, reflect the weariness among tsunami survivors with the long return to normality. A demonstration outside the main Indonesian reconstruction agency turned violent last month when protesters complained they still lacked basic services and demanded more money for education. The patience of American officials is wearing thin, too. They complain that the government has been too slow in buying up the land and resolving the fraught issue of the graves. Lately, the Americans have become so disconcerted about delays that they have tried to pry more action from the Indonesians by suggesting that the money for the road could be diverted to the United States reconstruction efforts in Lebanon. "It was threatened they would take the money away," said Kuntoro Mangkusubroto, director of the Indonesian rehabilitation and reconstruction agency in Aceh. He added with a shrug: "That's standard. I just swallow everything for the sake of the road." The Indonesians say the Americans are imposing first world standards of efficiency on a poor region that was pounded by civil war and then swamped by the tsunami, which killed more than 100,000 Indonesians. Records of land titles were washed away, and questions of inheritance among devastated families take a while to decide, they say. The idea for the road evolved soon after the tsunami when the Bush administration wanted to show that the United States cared about Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, in its moment of need. It was decided early on to finance one substantial American project that would make a splash rather than a number of smaller ones. At first, rebuilding a significant portion of the provincial capital, Banda Aceh, into a kind of "signature city" was proposed. Instead, a well-engineered road from the capital to Meulaboh, the southernmost coastal town, which was nearly completely wiped out, was considered a more fruitful project that played to the American strength of fast and modern construction. The new road would connect the poor fishing communities of the wasted west coast of Aceh to the outside world. But the Americans did not anticipate the long negotiations over compensation for land or the strong local feelings about the graves. Tucked under a grove of coconut trees, a pale-hued boulder and an ancient tree trunk represent this village's most mystical grave, the place where a white tiger is believed to run loose in the event of human transgression. Nearby, red and yellow flags left by surveyors indicated the American road is set to plow right through the sacred spot. A local elder, Mohammed Noor, 60, who forded a river and clambered over fences to show off the grave, says he cannot imagine that it could ever be moved. The problems with the road have not only to do with Indonesian sensibilities. An audit by the Inspector General of the United States Agency for International Development last March said the design of the road was delayed because the development agency asked the contractor to modify the design plan at least four times. It also noted that when the contract for the engineering work was awarded to the American firm Parson Global Services, it was awarded in November, four months late. By May, when the process was bogged down, a veteran of building big American projects abroad, Roy Ventura Jr., was brought in by USAID to expedite things. On June 29, Ventura said he presented the Indonesians with the final plan for where the road would run. He was told by Indonesian government officials, he said, that right of way would be ready so construction could begin for the first portion of the road to the village of Lhoong by July 25, and by Oct. 3 in the area farther south to the town of Calang. According to that schedule, American officials said they expected the first eight kilometers of the road to be completed by Aug. 23, and that new sections of the road would continue to unfold after that. But instead, USAID is paying the Indonesian road contractor, Wijaya Karya, about $100,000 a month to maintain the old road, money that should be going toward the new construction, American officials say. "The Americans are arguing that there should have been land acquisition a year ago," said Kuntoro. "But how could that happen when we did not know from the Americans where the road was running until June 29?" Kuntoro, a graduate in engineering from Stanford University who understands American impatience for fast results as well as he knows the Indonesian preference for discussion, sometimes to the umpteenth degree, has become the point man for many of the problems. He has been visited in his office in Banda Aceh by the American ambassador to Indonesia, B. Lynn Pascoe, by Ventura, and this week by investigators from the General Accounting Office in Washington. They all ask the same thing: When will enough continuous land be ready so that bulldozers can begin clearing the way? In fact, Kuntoro said in an interview Tuesday, he had just written a letter to Pascoe saying that his agency had gained title to 5.4 kilometers of continuous land and major construction could start. But on Thursday, Ventura said that he was not satisfied that the titles were transferred, and that work could only begin on a bridge involving a sliver of land. "The road itself is no different to any place in the world," said Ventura, who was with the Montana Highway department for 10 years and has managed construction sites in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the Philippines. "The process of getting right to the land to get the road built is very different." In an exchange with the Governor of Banda Aceh, Mustafa Abu Bakar, the frustrated Americans suggested that the governor consider using eminent domain procedures for speedy possession of the land. In reply, the governor said in a letter that in order to keep community support for the road he would use eminent domain only as a last resort. "The government sees the people here as victims of the tsunami and very vulnerable," said Eddy Siregar, a construction manager for the Indonesian contractor, Wijaya Karya, as he sat on the side of the old road in the village of Pasi, watching his men do maintenance instead of new construction. "It would be a big trauma if their land was taken. So they want to try the soft way." Late Wednesday afternoon, Noor got word that his village leaders had agreed with the provincial authorities to move the grave of the white tiger. "I can't imagine how they will do it," said a crestfallen Noor. "Will they do it nicely, or will they do it roughly?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061114/c8602700/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061114/c8602700/attachment.gif From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Fri Nov 17 00:03:10 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:03:10 +0100 Subject: [sustran] excellent new video on Global Warming on The Commons In-Reply-To: <1017398776.1163671444228.JavaMail.monitoring@svt.se> Message-ID: <02c401c70990$56abd1b0$6601a8c0@Home> There is an excellent new video just produced by the produced by Sveriges Television (SVT), the Swedish public service television company, which looks at the Global Warming debacle and debate with particular acuity and interest. You can pick it up on the main site of The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative at www.ecoplan.org . You'll see it under "Evidence" (NEW) on the top menu. Since this is part of our push to use the full range of communications tools and media in this important cause, you will see that we have also popped into the page that introduces in addition to the Swedish film some links to a couple other of the videos and films that you will find under the New Mobility Agenda. Lower down on the left menu of The Commons, you will see the beginning of a collection of videos and clips, to which we hope you will chose to add when you have something you think the others might wish to see. Eric Britton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061116/c172ceb4/attachment.html From martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Nov 17 05:22:35 2006 From: martincassini at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Cassini) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:22:35 -0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: excellent new video on Global Warming on The Commons In-Reply-To: <02c401c70990$56abd1b0$6601a8c0@Home> Message-ID: <00a501c709bc$f42474c0$a7382352@mc> Eric, Just letting you know that I have cut a minute out of my video. Hope to have it uploaded on to YouTube in the next few days. It will replace the current version. BW Martin -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+martincassini=blueyonder.co.uk@list.jca. apc.org] On Behalf Of Eric Britton Sent: 16 November 2006 15:03 To: the-commons@yahoogroups.com; WorldTransport@yahoogroups.com; NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Cc: Sustran-discuss@jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] excellent new video on Global Warming on The Commons There is an excellent new video just produced by the produced by Sveriges Television (SVT), the Swedish public service television company, which looks at the Global Warming debacle and debate with particular acuity and interest. You can pick it up on the main site of The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative at www.ecoplan.org . You'll see it under "Evidence" (NEW) on the top menu. Since this is part of our push to use the full range of communications tools and media in this important cause, you will see that we have also popped into the page that introduces in addition to the Swedish film some links to a couple other of the videos and films that you will find under the New Mobility Agenda. Lower down on the left menu of The Commons, you will see the beginning of a collection of videos and clips, to which we hope you will chose to add when you have something you think the others might wish to see. Eric Britton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061116/ec8b65f9/attachment.html From eric.britton at ecoplan.org Sat Nov 18 21:16:40 2006 From: eric.britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:16:40 +0100 Subject: [sustran] "make GATNET a part of IFRTD"? Message-ID: <063301c70b0b$74652540$6601a8c0@Home> * To confirm that we have the correct email, would you be so kind as to click the "Reply" link to this note. Kind thanks. Now the text: Dear Marinka and dear Gatnet friends, Hmm. I am not sure that I am entirely comfortable with this proposition Marinka (copied below) s. Since I am quite possibly quite wrong again, let me nonetheless see if I can in a few words clarify to this wonderful group and friends why I feel this way. For better or worse, we do have a model. And I for one like it quite a lot. What I have appreciated about our Gatnet family is precisely its wide open, personal and uninstitutional or hierarchical structure. My own expression for this is a "self-organizing collaborative network". I like the idea of IFRTD, ITDP, Dgroups, the Bank, the TRB, Wuppertal Institute, the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice, University of Pretoria, and any other of the players on this scene, including us here at The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative by the way, pitching in and lending a hand to forward our common, heart-felt concerns, namely the Gender, Equity and Transport agenda.. Lending a hand certainly yes, but "taking it in hand"? . . . I would say possibly not. I for one would hesitate before changing our basic independent flat model with no one in charge. I like the idea of 95 independent, responsible, at times and quite justifiably ornery citizens (though I would like it even more if we were 5 or 10x that) in a couple of dozen countries who get together when and as they can to share ideas, information, projects and invitations for collaborative action in our chosen patch. And it's great to hear that you at the IFRTD are proposing to do more with this structure and potential for change. But perhaps not by changing or corralling it. And least not quite yet. Our approach here at The Commons over the last couple of years of working with all of you on this, has been to see how we might pitch in and improve communications and open sharing. To this end we set up our little open forum at http://www.gatnet.net/ which supports and tries to build on, support and extend the basic Dgroups model (which by the way could certainly be much improved by more thought and improvement). But again, our idea here is to deepen, broaden, energize and support. And only that! Other views on this? Other proposals for next steps? More projects. More events. More interaction. More new ideas that are going to carry the day. More funding (which we can then figure out together how to use). Visible prizes and awards for path-breaking work. Yes, indeed. Let's talk about our common future. Strength in numbers, diversity, independence of views. . . and communication. ;-) Eric Britton PS. BTW is there any recent news on progress being made a set of special numbers of the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice to support Gatnet and the cause? And while we are hat it, this is an invitation to see the latest numbers of the Journal at www.wtransport.org, including the new Sustainable Mobility: Seen to the Year 2030 issue. This is, I truly believe, one of the many solid foundations that we can put to work for the cause. Among many. PPS. I am taking the initiative of sharing this with a quite sizeable group of people who have over the last several years exchanged views and information with either the Dgroups forum or corresponded directly with me here. I am doing this via blind copies just in case the spammers capture this note, but what I would suggest is that you respond to the group or alternatively to me as you prefer. I will then attempt to make sure that these ideas and suggestions get passed around. -----Original Message----- From: Marinke van Riet [mailto:marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org] Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:07 PM To: Gender and Transport Cc: 'Maria Gutierrez' Subject: [gatnet] IFRTD's Executive Committee Dear friends, IFRTD's Executive Committee meeting will be held from November 27-29 in London. As the highest governing IFRTD body the EC will adopt the strategy 2007-2011, which has been developed through a year-long participatory process. Some of you have been actively involved in this as GATNET members in particular or IFRTD members in general. The draft document and more information on the process itself are available through http://www.ifrtd.gn.apc.org/new/about/strat.php . Obviously in the new strategy we will continue to advocate for gender mainstreaming in the transport sector and during the EC we will have a one-day workshop on operationalising the strategy and brainstorming on specific advocacy strategies for achieving the gender mainstreaming component. . I am sure that most of you remember that last year we had an election process through this discussion group to nominate one member of GATNET to represent the Gender and Transport CoP at the ECM in Stockholm. Nite Tanzarn was elected and did an excellent job. We had hoped to do something similar this year but unfortunately due to budget constraints could not invite an additional person to represent GATNET. However the IFRTD Latin American network elected Maria Gutierrez from Peru to represent the Latin American region, a committed gender and transport specialist and member of this group. Maria participated at the Gender and Transport Conference in South Africa in August 2006 where she presented a paper on gender and rural roads in Peru. To make sure GATNET is still represented we have asked Maria to do a similar presentation at the ECM. I would like to apologise for not being able to go through the same process again and I appreciate your understanding. We are hoping that next year we will be able to have an election process the GATNET community and are in fact looking to make GATNET a part of IFRTD's official governance structure. Thank you so much and you will be able to read more about the proceedings of the EC at www.ifrtd.org Regards, Marinke Marinke van Riet Executive Secretary International Forum for Rural Transport and Development Web sites: www.ifrtd.org www.ruralwaterways.org www.mobilityandhealth.org Email: Marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org "The IFRTD is a global network of individuals and organisations working together towards improved access and mobility for the rural poor in developing countries" -----Original Message----- From: jeff turner [mailto:jeffreymturner@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 4:22 PM To: Gender and Transport Subject: [gatnet] RE: IFRTD's Executive Committee Marinke Thank you for the information You said: " We are hoping that next year we will be able to have an election process the GATNET community and are in fact looking to make GATNET a part of IFRTD's official governance structure. " Particularly welcome the idea of continued involvement of GATNET in the administration of your organisation and would love it if other organisation involved GATNET in their administration in the progressive way you do. Would very much like to hear more about your ideas for governance of the GATNET community and in particular your thoughts on the need for an election process, and whether you envisage some secretariat resources being available for GATNET for which there is a need to have an elected governance structure. I would also like to think we can have a debate about governance structures GATNET should have amongst GATNET members at some stage in the future. Thanks again and look forward to hearing of your EC meeting deliberations Best wishes Jeff Jeff Turner Transport & Social Development Consultancy Ltd 2 Parkside Ave Leeds LS6 4JD Tel +44 113 2781994 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061118/04b87e24/attachment.html From lutman at globalnet.co.uk Sat Nov 18 22:24:49 2006 From: lutman at globalnet.co.uk (Peter Lutman) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:24:49 -0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: "make GATNET a part of IFRTD"? References: <063301c70b0b$74652540$6601a8c0@Home> Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061118/cbe9ddd5/attachment.html From tanyahaslehurst at hotmail.com Sat Nov 18 23:38:19 2006 From: tanyahaslehurst at hotmail.com (Tanya Haslehurst) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 14:38:19 +0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: "make GATNET a part of IFRTD"? In-Reply-To: <063301c70b0b$74652540$6601a8c0@Home> Message-ID: >From: "Eric Britton" >Reply-To: eric.britton@ecoplan.org,Global 'South' Sustainable Transport > >To: >CC: Marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org,'John Whitelegg' >, tanzarn@yahoo.co.uk,mg294@cornell.edu >Subject: [sustran] "make GATNET a part of IFRTD"? >Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:16:40 +0100 > >* To confirm that we have the correct email, would you be so kind >as to click the "Reply" link to this note. Kind thanks. Now the text: > >Dear Marinka and dear Gatnet friends, > >Hmm. I am not sure that I am entirely comfortable with this proposition >Marinka (copied below) s. Since I am quite possibly quite wrong again, >let me nonetheless see if I can in a few words clarify to this wonderful >group and friends why I feel this way. > >For better or worse, we do have a model. And I for one like it quite a >lot. What I have appreciated about our Gatnet family is precisely its >wide open, personal and uninstitutional or hierarchical structure. My >own expression for this is a "self-organizing collaborative network". I >like the idea of IFRTD, ITDP, Dgroups, the Bank, the TRB, Wuppertal >Institute, the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice, >University of Pretoria, and any other of the players on this scene, >including us here at The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative >by the way, pitching in and lending a hand to forward our common, >heart-felt concerns, namely the Gender, Equity and Transport agenda.. >Lending a hand certainly yes, but "taking it in hand"? . . . I would >say possibly not. > >I for one would hesitate before changing our basic independent flat >model with no one in charge. I like the idea of 95 independent, >responsible, at times and quite justifiably ornery citizens (though I >would like it even more if we were 5 or 10x that) in a couple of dozen >countries who get together when and as they can to share ideas, >information, projects and invitations for collaborative action in our >chosen patch. And it's great to hear that you at the IFRTD are proposing >to do more with this structure and potential for change. But perhaps not >by changing or corralling it. And least not quite yet. > >Our approach here at The Commons over the last couple of years of >working with all of you on this, has been to see how we might pitch in >and improve communications and open sharing. To this end we set up our >little open forum at http://www.gatnet.net/ which supports and tries to >build on, support and extend the basic Dgroups model (which by the way >could certainly be much improved by more thought and improvement). But >again, our idea here is to deepen, broaden, energize and support. And >only that! > >Other views on this? Other proposals for next steps? More projects. >More events. More interaction. More new ideas that are going to carry >the day. More funding (which we can then figure out together how to >use). Visible prizes and awards for path-breaking work. Yes, indeed. >Let's talk about our common future. > >Strength in numbers, diversity, independence of views. . . and >communication. ;-) > >Eric Britton > >PS. BTW is there any recent news on progress being made a set of special >numbers of the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice to support >Gatnet and the cause? And while we are hat it, this is an invitation to >see the latest numbers of the Journal at www.wtransport.org, including >the new Sustainable Mobility: Seen to the Year 2030 > issue. This is, I truly >believe, one of the many solid foundations that we can put to work for >the cause. Among many. > >PPS. I am taking the initiative of sharing this with a quite sizeable >group of people who have over the last several years exchanged views and >information with either the Dgroups forum or corresponded directly with >me here. I am doing this via blind copies just in case the spammers >capture this note, but what I would suggest is that you respond to the >group or alternatively to me as you prefer. I will then attempt to make >sure that these ideas and suggestions get passed around. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marinke van Riet >[mailto:marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org] > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:07 PM > To: Gender and Transport > Cc: 'Maria Gutierrez' > Subject: [gatnet] IFRTD's Executive Committee > > Dear friends, > > IFRTD's Executive Committee meeting will be held from >November 27-29 in London. As the highest governing IFRTD body the EC >will adopt the strategy 2007-2011, which has been developed through a >year-long participatory process. Some of you have been actively involved >in this as GATNET members in particular or IFRTD members in general. The >draft document and more information on the process itself are available >through http://www.ifrtd.gn.apc.org/new/about/strat.php . Obviously in >the new strategy we will continue to advocate for gender mainstreaming >in the transport sector and during the EC we will have a one-day >workshop on operationalising the strategy and brainstorming on specific >advocacy strategies for achieving the gender mainstreaming component. . > > > I am sure that most of you remember that last year we >had an election process through this discussion group to nominate one >member of GATNET to represent the Gender and Transport CoP at the ECM in >Stockholm. Nite Tanzarn was elected and did an excellent job. We had >hoped to do something similar this year but unfortunately due to budget >constraints could not invite an additional person to represent GATNET. >However the IFRTD Latin American network elected Maria Gutierrez from >Peru to represent the Latin American region, a committed gender and >transport specialist and member of this group. Maria participated at the >Gender and Transport Conference in South Africa in August 2006 where she >presented a paper on gender and rural roads in Peru. To make sure GATNET >is still represented we have asked Maria to do a similar presentation at >the ECM. > > I would like to apologise for not being able to go >through the same process again and I appreciate your understanding. We >are hoping that next year we will be able to have an election process >the GATNET community and are in fact looking to make GATNET a part of >IFRTD's official governance structure. > > Thank you so much and you will be able to read more >about the proceedings of the EC at www.ifrtd.org > > > Regards, > > Marinke > > Marinke van Riet > Executive Secretary > International Forum for Rural Transport and Development > Web sites: www.ifrtd.org > www.ruralwaterways.org > www.mobilityandhealth.org > Email: Marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org > > "The IFRTD is a global network of individuals and >organisations working together towards improved access and mobility for >the rural poor in developing countries" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jeff turner [mailto:jeffreymturner@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 4:22 PM > To: Gender and Transport > Subject: [gatnet] RE: IFRTD's Executive Committee > >Marinke > >Thank you for the information > >You said: " We are hoping that next year we will be able to have an >election process the GATNET community and are in fact looking to make >GATNET a part of IFRTD's official governance structure. " > >Particularly welcome the idea of continued involvement of GATNET in the >administration of your organisation and would love it if other >organisation involved GATNET in their administration in the progressive >way you do. Would very much like to hear more about your ideas for >governance of the GATNET community and in particular your thoughts on >the need for an election process, and whether you envisage some >secretariat resources being available for GATNET for which there is a >need to have an elected governance structure. I would also like to think >we can have a debate about governance structures GATNET should have >amongst GATNET members at some stage in the future. > >Thanks again and look forward to hearing of your EC meeting >deliberations > >Best wishes > >Jeff > >Jeff Turner Transport & Social Development Consultancy Ltd >2 Parkside Ave >Leeds >LS6 4JD >Tel +44 113 2781994 > >-------------------------------------------------------- >IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via >YAHOOGROUPS. > >Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to >join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The >yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the >real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you >can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > >================================================================ >SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, >equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries >(the 'Global South'). _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters From sudhir at secon.in Mon Nov 20 11:12:03 2006 From: sudhir at secon.in (Sudhir) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:42:03 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: "make GATNET a part of IFRTD"? References: <063301c70b0b$74652540$6601a8c0@Home> Message-ID: <003e01c70c49$451ef0b0$d607a8c0@SA152A> "make GATNET a part of IFRTD"? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Britton To: gatnet@dgroups.org Cc: Marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org ; 'John Whitelegg' ; tanzarn@yahoo.co.uk ; mg294@cornell.edu Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:46 PM Subject: [sustran] "make GATNET a part of IFRTD"? ? To confirm that we have the correct email, would you be so kind as to click the "Reply" link to this note. Kind thanks. Now the text: Dear Marinka and dear Gatnet friends, Hmm. I am not sure that I am entirely comfortable with this proposition Marinka (copied below) s. Since I am quite possibly quite wrong again, let me nonetheless see if I can in a few words clarify to this wonderful group and friends why I feel this way. For better or worse, we do have a model. And I for one like it quite a lot. What I have appreciated about our Gatnet family is precisely its wide open, personal and uninstitutional or hierarchical structure. My own expression for this is a "self-organizing collaborative network". I like the idea of IFRTD, ITDP, Dgroups, the Bank, the TRB, Wuppertal Institute, the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice, University of Pretoria, and any other of the players on this scene, including us here at The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative by the way, pitching in and lending a hand to forward our common, heart-felt concerns, namely the Gender, Equity and Transport agenda.. Lending a hand certainly yes, but "taking it in hand"? . . . I would say possibly not. I for one would hesitate before changing our basic independent flat model with no one in charge. I like the idea of 95 independent, responsible, at times and quite justifiably ornery citizens (though I would like it even more if we were 5 or 10x that) in a couple of dozen countries who get together when and as they can to share ideas, information, projects and invitations for collaborative action in our chosen patch. And it's great to hear that you at the IFRTD are proposing to do more with this structure and potential for change. But perhaps not by changing or corralling it. And least not quite yet. Our approach here at The Commons over the last couple of years of working with all of you on this, has been to see how we might pitch in and improve communications and open sharing. To this end we set up our little open forum at http://www.gatnet.net/ which supports and tries to build on, support and extend the basic Dgroups model (which by the way could certainly be much improved by more thought and improvement). But again, our idea here is to deepen, broaden, energize and support. And only that! Other views on this? Other proposals for next steps? More projects. More events. More interaction. More new ideas that are going to carry the day. More funding (which we can then figure out together how to use). Visible prizes and awards for path-breaking work. Yes, indeed. Let's talk about our common future. Strength in numbers, diversity, independence of views. . . and communication. ;-) Eric Britton PS. BTW is there any recent news on progress being made a set of special numbers of the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice to support Gatnet and the cause? And while we are hat it, this is an invitation to see the latest numbers of the Journal at www.wtransport.org, including the new Sustainable Mobility: Seen to the Year 2030 issue. This is, I truly believe, one of the many solid foundations that we can put to work for the cause. Among many. PPS. I am taking the initiative of sharing this with a quite sizeable group of people who have over the last several years exchanged views and information with either the Dgroups forum or corresponded directly with me here. I am doing this via blind copies just in case the spammers capture this note, but what I would suggest is that you respond to the group or alternatively to me as you prefer. I will then attempt to make sure that these ideas and suggestions get passed around. -----Original Message----- From: Marinke van Riet [mailto:marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org] Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:07 PM To: Gender and Transport Cc: 'Maria Gutierrez' Subject: [gatnet] IFRTD's Executive Committee Dear friends, IFRTD's Executive Committee meeting will be held from November 27-29 in London. As the highest governing IFRTD body the EC will adopt the strategy 2007-2011, which has been developed through a year-long participatory process. Some of you have been actively involved in this as GATNET members in particular or IFRTD members in general. The draft document and more information on the process itself are available through http://www.ifrtd.gn.apc.org/new/about/strat.php . Obviously in the new strategy we will continue to advocate for gender mainstreaming in the transport sector and during the EC we will have a one-day workshop on operationalising the strategy and brainstorming on specific advocacy strategies for achieving the gender mainstreaming component. . I am sure that most of you remember that last year we had an election process through this discussion group to nominate one member of GATNET to represent the Gender and Transport CoP at the ECM in Stockholm. Nite Tanzarn was elected and did an excellent job. We had hoped to do something similar this year but unfortunately due to budget constraints could not invite an additional person to represent GATNET. However the IFRTD Latin American network elected Maria Gutierrez from Peru to represent the Latin American region, a committed gender and transport specialist and member of this group. Maria participated at the Gender and Transport Conference in South Africa in August 2006 where she presented a paper on gender and rural roads in Peru. To make sure GATNET is still represented we have asked Maria to do a similar presentation at the ECM. I would like to apologise for not being able to go through the same process again and I appreciate your understanding. We are hoping that next year we will be able to have an election process the GATNET community and are in fact looking to make GATNET a part of IFRTD's official governance structure. Thank you so much and you will be able to read more about the proceedings of the EC at www.ifrtd.org Regards, Marinke Marinke van Riet Executive Secretary International Forum for Rural Transport and Development Web sites: www.ifrtd.org www.ruralwaterways.org www.mobilityandhealth.org Email: Marinke.vanriet@ifrtd.org "The IFRTD is a global network of individuals and organisations working together towards improved access and mobility for the rural poor in developing countries" -----Original Message----- From: jeff turner [mailto:jeffreymturner@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 4:22 PM To: Gender and Transport Subject: [gatnet] RE: IFRTD's Executive Committee Marinke Thank you for the information You said: " We are hoping that next year we will be able to have an election process the GATNET community and are in fact looking to make GATNET a part of IFRTD's official governance structure. " Particularly welcome the idea of continued involvement of GATNET in the administration of your organisation and would love it if other organisation involved GATNET in their administration in the progressive way you do. Would very much like to hear more about your ideas for governance of the GATNET community and in particular your thoughts on the need for an election process, and whether you envisage some secretariat resources being available for GATNET for which there is a need to have an elected governance structure. I would also like to think we can have a debate about governance structures GATNET should have amongst GATNET members at some stage in the future. Thanks again and look forward to hearing of your EC meeting deliberations Best wishes Jeff Jeff Turner Transport & Social Development Consultancy Ltd 2 Parkside Ave Leeds LS6 4JD Tel +44 113 2781994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061120/4be1e919/attachment.html From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Mon Nov 20 22:49:25 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:49:25 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Public sector specifying technology In-Reply-To: <1164018200.303.81765.m27@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <141901c70caa$b629e100$6601a8c0@Home> Dear Friends, Oh dear. In the wake of this enthusiastic exchange of best intentioned views on what buses should best run on in London or indeed anywhere on this benighted planet, I offer the following impolite commentary for those views and counter-comments. Any public sector agency specifying a technology to do a given job? Ethanol, electric, hybrid, banana-driven or what have you? This is a painful and one would hoe by now unnecessary business. Every time I run into this sort of thing I have to shake my head and wonder what if anything we have learned from our cumulative past experience of the last thirty years of this kind of thing. Public authorities know demonstrably and irrevocably N O T H I N G about technology or how to put a viable technology package together for operation in, say, a dense urban environment (or just about any other while we are at it.) So if you want a "clean" public vehicle for this or that use, you should have a close look at the state of the art and the specific performance parameters which reflect the best thing that you can bring aboard at affordable cost to the taxpayer (hey, that's ME!!) and at the same time be reliable and affordable in terms of maintenance and operation for the poor guys who have to run the damn thing. There are, I can observe from experience, only four reasons for specifying the technology (including some infelicitous combination of all four): 1. Because you are an ideologue and this fits in with your articles of faith. 2. Because you are ignorant of past experience. 3. Because you are lazy and looking for the media op of the moment (at no matter what longer term cost). 4. Because you are influenced by the interested economic players. It's that simple!!! It don't wash! (Do I have any friends left here?) Eric Britton * * * FROM: ian.wingrove@london.gov.uk DATE: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:15:41 -0000 SUBJECT: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] Congestion charging and polluter pays Thanks again. Mayor's office went to visit Stockholm a few months ago and very interested. I bumped into a Swedish Green last weekend and chatted about this. I will be pressing them on using sewage as well. Cheers IW -----Original Message----- From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Bruun Sent: 17 November 2006 19:27 To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] Congestion charging and polluter pays Ian You are probably already aware, but Stockholm has been making ethanol for central city buses from municipal waste for years. If you don't have a contact there, I can probably find one for you. Thanks for taking the time to explain London's program. Eric -----Original Message----- From: Ian Wingrove Sent: Nov 17, 2006 5:33 AM To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] Congestion charging and polluter pays Eric You are of course right that having a 100% zero emission vehicles is not the solution to all problems, even if it solves air pollution problems at the point of use - air quality still being a major problem in London. Again, it is the context of doing this within a framework of other successful policies. For example, zero emissions will do nothing to stop road deaths. Since 2000 when the GLA was established, London's road casualty rate has fallen faster than any other urban centre in the UK and we have tougher targets for casualty reduction than anywhere else in the UK. My boss has been the Mayor's Road Safety Ambassador during this time and has argued for higher investment in the things we know work and research into the next generation of ideas. The London road safety budget has more than doubled and we are piloting technological solutions such as speed limiters. We have just started pushing forward on decentralised energy and local renewables in London. I can't claim any success as it is early days and we are so far behind other European cities. But the aim surely is to have an integrated system, where people produce enough energy locally to meet many of their energy needs - including charging up vehicles. For example, a recent report for the Mayor showed that they could power the entire bus fleet from energy produced from waste. Cheers IW -----Original Message----- From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Bruun Sent: 16 November 2006 19:52 To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] Congestion charging and polluter pays Ian But there is still no way that giving low emissions cars free entry can possibly reduce congestion and the demand for parking. At best traffic will stay the same, at worst it increase the traffic. I also think that "zero" emissions private autos is a misguided goal. Unless a country is 100 percent without fossil fuels for generating electricity, even electric cars still use petroleum or coal (or maybe even nuclear power) to charge their batteries. Furthermore, batteries are themselves an eco-problem. If your current fuel prices aren't already enough to deter SUV use, then UK's problem is that a lot of people are so darned rich that price doesn't matter to them. These are the same people who will no doubt be the first to be buying hybrids or zero emission vehicles, since access is important and price is not. They will also no doubt continue to use their SUVs or luxury cars for their remaining trips. Finally, I want to point out the experience from the Virginia burb's of Wash DC and in California. Hybrids were allowed to use the HOV lanes and they wrecked the transit services that operate on them due to high congestion. End result - lots of cars sales (a windfall to auto manufacturers) an increase in public transport operating costs, and a reduction in public transport use. Eric Bruun -----Original Message----- From: Ian Wingrove Sent: Nov 16, 2006 5:40 AM To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] Congestion charging and polluter pays We are certainly practical greens who want to see people shift from badly polluting vehicles to less polluting vehicles as a result of this relatively short term measure. We are keen to help create a market for zero emission vehicles and price diffentials have been very successful in doing this. If we can stop the UK from adopting the SUV culture of the US, then that will be a useful achievement. As for second cars - in all of inner London and much of outer London, they would have to pay residents parking charges, on top of all the other car owning charges. Nor is this CC policy a one off. All of the London initiatives have to be seen within the context of increased public transport provision, a growing momentum behind using 'soft measures' to reduce the demand for travel and a tightening up of car parking standards in the planning policy (by no means perfect). Despite London's rapidly growing population, we have still managed a slight decrease in traffic since 2000 across the whole of the city - at a time when it has grown by 5% in the rest of the country. -----Original Message----- From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Bruun Sent: 15 November 2006 20:16 To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Congestion charging and polluter pays I think it is typical that "environmental" groups would advocate zero charge for less polluting vehicles. I oppose it. The congestion charge isn't just about emissions, it is about space and energy consumption as well. We can expect to see the wealthy buy additional cars (maybe not even selling their old ones) and increase in traffic. Eric Bruun -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061120/3599f335/attachment.html From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Tue Nov 21 01:28:19 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:28:19 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice - Vol. 13, No. 1 Sustainable Mobility: Seen to the Year 2030 In-Reply-To: <1164038473.319.95540.m26@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <17d701c70cc0$e7fe10f0$6601a8c0@Home> Dear Friends: This is an advance announcement about new numbers of the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice which are on line at www.wtransport.org. Vol. 13, No. 1 Sustainable Mobility: Seen to the Year 2030 has just been posted to the site and is now freely available for you. Contents * Editorial John Whitelegg * Abstracts & Keywords * What goes up must come down: Household car ownership and 'Walking for transport' - Hazel Baslington * Trends, innovative course settings and levers for mobility & transport: * Seen to the year 2030 - Hartmut H. Topp * Splintering the public realm: using local public space for corporate economic gain? - Fiona Raje * Effects of pedestrianisation on the commercial and retail areas: study in Kha San Road, Bangkok - Santhosh Kumar K., William Ross * Cycling for active transport and recreation in Australia: status review and future directions Rissel C, Garrard J * Travel in Inner City versus Urban Fringe of Adelaide: the Role of Neighbourhood Design - Soltani A, Allan A, Sommenhalli S, Primerano F The special issue on China will be posted shortly. Eric Britton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061120/e4226c1e/attachment.html From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Tue Nov 21 18:39:52 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:39:52 +0100 Subject: [sustran] World Transport Journal - New summary edition and introduction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0f5301c70d51$0170f300$6601a8c0@Home> Dear Friends of sustainability and social justice wherever you are on this troubled planet, We have decided to experiment with another handy communications tool that we happen to have around here to see how we might extend the reach and impact of the Journal of World Transport Policy and Practice. So if you travel today to www.wtransport.org and click the Thinkpad on the top menu, you will see a full synopsis of Vol. 13-1, including the editorial of John Whitelegg along with abstracts of the articles in this issue. We hope you find this useful, and if you do it would be good if you might just send on a quick note with your views and suggestions. You also may find some interest in the section Interact/Collaborate (lower left menu), which is in fact an open invitation for you to get involved. Eric Britton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061121/30853987/attachment.html From lfwright at usa.net Wed Nov 22 22:40:00 2006 From: lfwright at usa.net (Lloyd Wright) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:40:00 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Guangzhou bans electric bicycles Message-ID: <259kkVNna1598S18.1164202800@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net> http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/39099/story.htm China's Easy Riders Deride Electric Bike Ban ------------------------------------------------------------------------- CHINA: November 22, 2006 BEIJING - A ban on battery-powered bicycles in the southern China city of Guangzhou has left tens of thousands of owners grounded without compensation and angered vendors who face lost business, local media reported on Tuesday. The ban, effective a day after police announced it last week but allowing a "15-day education period", was aimed at preventing electric-powered bikes from becoming "the main mode of transport", Xinhua reported. "If such bikes are permitted, this will certainly rapidly increase the burden on roads," Xinhua quoted police as saying. Guangzhou, a booming Pearl River Delta city of about 10 million often choked with traffic jams, was China's fifth-fastest growing car market in the first half of 2006, state media has reported. The city has about 870,000 cars, Xinhua reported last week, growing at about 150,000 every year. Police also cited safety concerns and the inability to effectively enforce traffic regulations on electric-bike riders. "These riders have never received any special riding training or tests, so their driving skills are very difficult to guarantee." Police added that compensation would not be given to bike owners as they had been urged "through the media" not to buy bikes and in any case, the Guangzhou government had "never permitted" them. At least 100,000 residents ride electric bikes every day in Guangzhou, which at 1,000-3,000 yuan (US$125-US$380) are a cheap and increasingly popular form of transport in Chinese cities. But several local governments have banned the bikes which require no licence and are exempt from registration fees. Beijing has confined electric bikes to its outer suburbs, although riders regularly flout the regulation. Over 100 electric bike manufacturers, vendors and riders held a rally in a Guangzhou hotel to protest the ban, the Yangcheng Evening News, a Guangzhou daily, reported. "Allow the orderly and healthy development of electric bicycles and don't simply kill them off!" the paper quoted protesters as saying. The group issued a joint communique, saying the authorities "had not fully consulted the will of the people". Construction Ministry Vice Minister Qiu Baoxing earlier this year slammed city planners for pandering to private car owners and ignoring the needs of ordinary pedal cyclists, saying China should remain the "kingdom of bicycles". Qiu lamented that some Chinese cities were cutting back on bicycle lanes in order to make more room for cars, even as some Western cities were building more lanes for cyclists. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE From rajendra_media at yahoo.com Thu Nov 23 01:23:50 2006 From: rajendra_media at yahoo.com (Rajendra Aklekar) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:23:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sustran] Mumbai's double deckers saved from scrap, yet again Message-ID: <20061122162350.37775.qmail@web61314.mail.yahoo.com> Mumbai's double deckers saved from scrap, yet again http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1849689,000600010004.htm Rajendra Aklekar Mumbai, November 21, 2006 Mumbai?s famous double decker buses have been saved from the scrap torch. The BEST has finally, relented to pressure from citizens and its committee members and agreed to maintain a minimum fleet of at least 200 double decker buses. It had earlier proposed to maintain a fleet of merely 75 double deckers in its fleet. HT had first reported that the undertaking had proposed to cut down its fleet. Relenting to pressure from citizens and from BEST committee members, who, cutting across party lines, opposed the BEST?s proposal of slashing double deckers, first introduced in 1937, the undertaking said they will work out a way to maintain the fleet. ?Double deckers have been Mumbai?s landmark and the BEST there was a uproar from citizens when the BEST had tried to do so earlier. Even this time, a number of Mumbai citizens have come ahead and requested the BEST not to scrap its double deckers, which evoke nostalgia and charm. And hence we requested the undertaking to maintain a minimum fleet of 200 buses,? Congress committee member Ravi Raja said. ?In fact I would say, the BEST should not only maintain its fleet of double decker buses, but also think of inducting air-conditioned double deckers in its fleet. They would not only add to the city?s charm, but also be more convenient for passengers,? BJP?s Pravin Chheda said. Committee member Sunil Ganacharya said how dare the administration even attempted to withdraw double deckers, when it had earlier given an assurance that they would maintain a minimum fleet of 200 such buses. BEST general manager Uttam Khobragade said that he would work out a solution as to how can he maintain the fleet with minimum expenditure losses. ?Running double decker buses is an expensive affair and it is highly uneconomical to run them, but we shall try and do a product mix, which means induct smaller buses on the route when there?s no crowd and induct double deckers during rush hours and crowded routes? he told HT. Initially, the undertaking had plans to bring down its double decker fleet from 227 in April 2006 to as less as 75 by March 2007. According to official documents, the BEST Undertaking had a fleet of 227 buses in April 2006 and during the financial year 2006-07, the management planned to scrap 153 buses out of service and the expected fleet of double decker bus will come down to a mere 75 by march next year. As of 1 October 2006, the figure had already come down to 199. During the year 2006-07, the BEST added only one double decker bus to its fleet. BEST figures state that the cost of operation of a double decker bus is Rs 58 per km as against Rs 37 for a single decker bus. At present, double decker buses run on 16 various routes in the city and suburbs. While double decker requires two conductors as against one in a single decker bus, the carrying capacity of a double decker bus is 91 passengers as against 72 for a single decker bus. Maintaining a double-decker costs Rs 50,000 a year. BEST minimum fare is now Rs 3 The minimum fare of the BEST has been brought down to Rs 3 for a minimum distance of 2 km on Tuesday. At present, the minimum fare slab was Rs 4 for a distance of 3 km. The BEST committee had proposed to slash fares to meet the challenge of share autos in the suburbs due to which as the undertaking was seeing a drop in passenger traffic. --- Rajendra Aklekar Hindustan Times HT Media Limited Mahalaxmi Ind. Estate LJ. Cross Road Mahim, Mumbai-16 Mobile: +91 9892 190 761 Office: 66539200 Fax: 66539250/60 --- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career. www.nextag.com From Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk Thu Nov 23 01:47:48 2006 From: Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk (Alan Howes) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:47:48 -0000 Subject: [sustran] Re: Mumbai's double deckers saved from scrap, yet again Message-ID: <324DCD7680954F468CF306EE5404F00102EB637E@mail01.cbuchanan.co.uk> Hallelujah! I have to say I could never understand why deckers cost BEST so much more to operate than single-decks - although obviously the second conductor comes at a cost. But the GM's proposed strategy makes sense - no point in running deckers on lightly-used evening journeys. NB in the HT para - "According to official documents, the BEST Undertaking had a fleet of 227 buses in April 2006 and during the financial year 2006-07, the management planned to scrap 153 buses out of service and the expected fleet of double decker bus will come down to a mere 75 by march next year." The numbers do, of course, refer to double deck buses. Also, those capacities quoted are very much nominal! Alan -- Alan Howes Associate Transport Planner Colin Buchanan 4 St Colme Street Edinburgh EH3 6AA Scotland email: alan.howes@cbuchanan.co.uk tel: (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard) (0)7952 464335 (mobile) fax: (0)131 220 0232 www: http:/www.cbuchanan.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk@list.jca.apc. org] On Behalf Of Rajendra Aklekar Sent: 22 November 2006 16:24 To: sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org Subject: [sustran] Mumbai's double deckers saved from scrap, yet again Mumbai's double deckers saved from scrap, yet again http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1849689,000600010004.htm Rajendra Aklekar Mumbai, November 21, 2006 Mumbai's famous double decker buses have been saved from the scrap torch. The BEST has finally, relented to pressure from citizens and its committee members and agreed to maintain a minimum fleet of at least 200 double decker buses. It had earlier proposed to maintain a fleet of merely 75 double deckers in its fleet. HT had first reported that the undertaking had proposed to cut down its fleet. Relenting to pressure from citizens and from BEST committee members, who, cutting across party lines, opposed the BEST's proposal of slashing double deckers, first introduced in 1937, the undertaking said they will work out a way to maintain the fleet. "Double deckers have been Mumbai's landmark and the BEST there was a uproar from citizens when the BEST had tried to do so earlier. Even this time, a number of Mumbai citizens have come ahead and requested the BEST not to scrap its double deckers, which evoke nostalgia and charm. And hence we requested the undertaking to maintain a minimum fleet of 200 buses," Congress committee member Ravi Raja said. "In fact I would say, the BEST should not only maintain its fleet of double decker buses, but also think of inducting air-conditioned double deckers in its fleet. They would not only add to the city's charm, but also be more convenient for passengers," BJP's Pravin Chheda said. Committee member Sunil Ganacharya said how dare the administration even attempted to withdraw double deckers, when it had earlier given an assurance that they would maintain a minimum fleet of 200 such buses. BEST general manager Uttam Khobragade said that he would work out a solution as to how can he maintain the fleet with minimum expenditure losses. "Running double decker buses is an expensive affair and it is highly uneconomical to run them, but we shall try and do a product mix, which means induct smaller buses on the route when there's no crowd and induct double deckers during rush hours and crowded routes" he told HT. Initially, the undertaking had plans to bring down its double decker fleet from 227 in April 2006 to as less as 75 by March 2007. According to official documents, the BEST Undertaking had a fleet of 227 buses in April 2006 and during the financial year 2006-07, the management planned to scrap 153 buses out of service and the expected fleet of double decker bus will come down to a mere 75 by march next year. As of 1 October 2006, the figure had already come down to 199. During the year 2006-07, the BEST added only one double decker bus to its fleet. BEST figures state that the cost of operation of a double decker bus is Rs 58 per km as against Rs 37 for a single decker bus. At present, double decker buses run on 16 various routes in the city and suburbs. While double decker requires two conductors as against one in a single decker bus, the carrying capacity of a double decker bus is 91 passengers as against 72 for a single decker bus. Maintaining a double-decker costs Rs 50,000 a year. BEST minimum fare is now Rs 3 The minimum fare of the BEST has been brought down to Rs 3 for a minimum distance of 2 km on Tuesday. At present, the minimum fare slab was Rs 4 for a distance of 3 km. The BEST committee had proposed to slash fares to meet the challenge of share autos in the suburbs due to which as the undertaking was seeing a drop in passenger traffic. --- Rajendra Aklekar Hindustan Times HT Media Limited Mahalaxmi Ind. Estate LJ. Cross Road Mahim, Mumbai-16 Mobile: +91 9892 190 761 Office: 66539200 Fax: 66539250/60 --- ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Sponsored Link Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career. www.nextag.com -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). ........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ DISCLAIMER This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Unless you are the named addressee, or authorised to receive it for the addressee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender by replying to this email. Any views expressed by an individual within this email which do not constitute or record professional advice relating to the business of Colin Buchanan, do not necessarily reflect the views of the company. Any professional advice or opinion contained within this email is subject to our terms and conditions of business. We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses. We do not accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. From Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org Fri Nov 24 01:07:28 2006 From: Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo SUTP) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:07:28 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <259kkVNna1598S18.1164202800@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> The basic problem in China is the fact that automobile production has been given a top priority and the government wants to do anything but reduce the ownership of cars. Though Qiu Boaxing stated that ?the country must retain its title as the kingdom of bicycles?, this statement is still not in practice. We?re starting to do training courses on sustainable transport and hope to have some impact there, but there?s a long way to go. And then electric bicycles: they?re wonderful, from my point of view. Not so fast, very very little noise, and little space requirements (also, in China, pretty cheap). But if users ?improve? them by increasing the speed of the vehicle and start running into people, they won?t have much time left in the city. Another issue is that, though they?re electric, electricity is still coal generated so the vehicle itself isn?t polluting, but the source of its power IS. Carlos F. Pardo Coordinador de Proyecto GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC) Cl 126 # 52A-28 of 404 Bogot? D.C., Colombia Tel: ?+57 (1) 215 7812 Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662 e-mail: carlos.pardo@sutp.org P?gina: www.sutp.org -----Mensaje original----- De: sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org] En nombre de Lloyd Wright Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 22 de Noviembre de 2006 08:40 a.m. Para: Sustran-discuss@jca.apc.org Asunto: [sustran] Guangzhou bans electric bicycles http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/39099/story.htm China's Easy Riders Deride Electric Bike Ban ------------------------------------------------------------------------- CHINA: November 22, 2006 BEIJING - A ban on battery-powered bicycles in the southern China city of Guangzhou has left tens of thousands of owners grounded without compensation and angered vendors who face lost business, local media reported on Tuesday. The ban, effective a day after police announced it last week but allowing a "15-day education period", was aimed at preventing electric-powered bikes from becoming "the main mode of transport", Xinhua reported. "If such bikes are permitted, this will certainly rapidly increase the burden on roads," Xinhua quoted police as saying. Guangzhou, a booming Pearl River Delta city of about 10 million often choked with traffic jams, was China's fifth-fastest growing car market in the first half of 2006, state media has reported. The city has about 870,000 cars, Xinhua reported last week, growing at about 150,000 every year. Police also cited safety concerns and the inability to effectively enforce traffic regulations on electric-bike riders. "These riders have never received any special riding training or tests, so their driving skills are very difficult to guarantee." Police added that compensation would not be given to bike owners as they had been urged "through the media" not to buy bikes and in any case, the Guangzhou government had "never permitted" them. At least 100,000 residents ride electric bikes every day in Guangzhou, which at 1,000-3,000 yuan (US$125-US$380) are a cheap and increasingly popular form of transport in Chinese cities. But several local governments have banned the bikes which require no licence and are exempt from registration fees. Beijing has confined electric bikes to its outer suburbs, although riders regularly flout the regulation. Over 100 electric bike manufacturers, vendors and riders held a rally in a Guangzhou hotel to protest the ban, the Yangcheng Evening News, a Guangzhou daily, reported. "Allow the orderly and healthy development of electric bicycles and don't simply kill them off!" the paper quoted protesters as saying. The group issued a joint communique, saying the authorities "had not fully consulted the will of the people". Construction Ministry Vice Minister Qiu Baoxing earlier this year slammed city planners for pandering to private car owners and ignoring the needs of ordinary pedal cyclists, saying China should remain the "kingdom of bicycles". Qiu lamented that some Chinese cities were cutting back on bicycle lanes in order to make more room for cars, even as some Western cities were building more lanes for cyclists. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From jmcusset at freesurf.fr Fri Nov 24 01:31:58 2006 From: jmcusset at freesurf.fr (jmcusset at freesurf.fr) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:31:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> References: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> Message-ID: <3724.86.71.26.161.1164299518.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> I agree entirely with Carlos. It seems crazy to ban electric bicycle in this city. At the time of global warming, this transport would to be encouraged in Asian cities where the market is huge. I hope Vietnamese authorities will not follow these China transport measures as far as air pollution is more and more high in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. Dr Jean Michel CUSSET Senior Eonomist Researcher, Laobratoire d'Economie des Transports, Lyon, France The basic problem in China is the fact that automobile production has > been given a top priority and the government wants to do anything but > reduce the ownership of cars. Though Qiu Boaxing stated that ?the > country must retain its title as the kingdom of bicycles?, this > statement is still not in practice. We?re starting to do training > courses on sustainable transport and hope to have some impact there, > but there?s a long way to go. > > And then electric bicycles: they?re wonderful, from my point of view. > Not so fast, very very little noise, and little space requirements > (also, in China, pretty cheap). But if users ?improve? them by > increasing the speed of the vehicle and start running into people, they > won?t have much time left in the city. Another issue is that, though > they?re electric, electricity is still coal generated so the vehicle > itself isn?t polluting, but the source of its power IS. > > > Carlos F. Pardo > Coordinador de Proyecto > GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC) > Cl 126 # 52A-28 of 404 > Bogot? D.C., Colombia > Tel: ?+57 (1) 215 7812 > Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662 > e-mail: carlos.pardo@sutp.org > P?gina: www.sutp.org > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org] > En nombre de Lloyd Wright > Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 22 de Noviembre de 2006 08:40 a.m. > Para: Sustran-discuss@jca.apc.org > Asunto: [sustran] Guangzhou bans electric bicycles > > http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/39099/story.htm > > China's Easy Riders Deride Electric Bike Ban > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > CHINA: November 22, 2006 > > BEIJING - A ban on battery-powered bicycles in the southern China city > of Guangzhou has left tens of thousands of owners grounded without > compensation and angered vendors who face lost business, local media > reported on Tuesday. > > > The ban, effective a day after police announced it last week but > allowing a "15-day education period", was aimed at preventing > electric-powered bikes from > becoming "the main mode of transport", Xinhua reported. "If such bikes > are permitted, this will certainly rapidly increase the burden on > roads," Xinhua quoted police as saying. > > Guangzhou, a booming Pearl River Delta city of about 10 million often > choked with traffic jams, was China's fifth-fastest growing car market > in the first half of 2006, state media has reported. > > The city has about 870,000 cars, Xinhua reported last week, growing at > about 150,000 every year. Police also cited safety concerns and the > inability to effectively enforce traffic regulations on electric-bike > riders. > > "These riders have never received any special riding training or tests, > so their driving skills are very difficult to guarantee." > > Police added that compensation would not be given to bike owners as > they had been urged "through the media" not to buy bikes and in any > case, the Guangzhou > government had "never permitted" them. > > At least 100,000 residents ride electric bikes every day in Guangzhou, > which at 1,000-3,000 yuan (US$125-US$380) are a cheap and increasingly > popular form > of transport in Chinese cities. > > But several local governments have banned the bikes which require no > licence and are exempt from registration fees. > > Beijing has confined electric bikes to its outer suburbs, although > riders regularly flout the regulation. > > Over 100 electric bike manufacturers, vendors and riders held a rally > in a Guangzhou hotel to protest the ban, the Yangcheng Evening News, a > Guangzhou daily, reported. > > "Allow the orderly and healthy development of electric bicycles and > don't simply kill them off!" the paper quoted protesters as saying. > > The group issued a joint communique, saying the authorities "had not > fully consulted the will of the people". > > Construction Ministry Vice Minister Qiu Baoxing earlier this year > slammed city > planners for pandering to private car owners and ignoring the needs of > ordinary pedal cyclists, saying China should remain the "kingdom of > bicycles". > > > Qiu lamented that some Chinese cities were cutting back on bicycle > lanes in order to make more room for cars, even as some Western cities > were building more lanes for cyclists. > > REUTERS NEWS SERVICE > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ===============================================================SUSTRAN- DISCUSS > is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and > sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to > the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem > like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ===============================================================SUSTRAN- DISCUSS > is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and > sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global > South'). From zvi at inro.ca Fri Nov 24 01:33:25 2006 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:33:25 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> References: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> Message-ID: <4565CD55.4080609@inro.ca> It is clear that China has a very strong motivation to leverage it's burgeoning auto industry as an 'engine of economic growth'. The US did this very successfully in the past, as did Japan, so why shouldn't China do the same thing? Of course we all recognize that 'sustainable' auto-mobility in China is physically not possible, but that does not prevent them from wanting to expand into foreign markets for 'lower-end' vehicles (ie other developing countries). There is one thing which I do not understand about bicycles. In certain countries, bicycles have become status symbols just like cars. It is not uncommon to find $1000+ bicycles in North America! In China, and other countries which have very large numbers of bicycles, there does not yet seem to be much interest in these 'luxury' bicycles, even though disposable incomes have greatly increased in recent years. Presumably this is because people still feel deprived of basic mobility and would prefer to upgrade to a motorized form of transportation. Even in Holland and Germany which have huge numbers of bicycles and very good access to transportation (plus quite high income levels), the bicycle is still perceived as basically a 'functional' means of transport - one does not often see expensive bicycles in these places. Any thoughts about how one can break the cycle of "economic development" leading to more motorization? If any of you have had the chance to view the highly recommended documentary "The End of Suburbia ", one of the oil executives in the film makes the point that there is a direct correlation between economic development and energy consumption. Until we can find some way to change this relationship, we are basically doomed - either we will be living in poverty or we will be consuming all of the resources of the planet (to say nothing of the pollution and other problems associated with this). Cheers, Zvi Carlos F. Pardo SUTP wrote: > The basic problem in China is the fact that automobile production has been > given a top priority and the government wants to do anything but reduce the > ownership of cars. Though Qiu Boaxing stated that ?the country must retain > its title as the kingdom of bicycles?, this statement is still not in > practice. We?re starting to do training courses on sustainable transport and > hope to have some impact there, but there?s a long way to go. > > And then electric bicycles: they?re wonderful, from my point of view. Not so > fast, very very little noise, and little space requirements (also, in China, > pretty cheap). But if users ?improve? them by increasing the speed of the > vehicle and start running into people, they won?t have much time left in the > city. Another issue is that, though they?re electric, electricity is still > coal generated? so the vehicle itself isn?t polluting, but the source of its > power IS. > > > Carlos F. Pardo > Coordinador de Proyecto > GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC) > Cl 126 # 52A-28 of 404 > Bogot? D.C., Colombia > Tel: +57 (1) 215 7812 > Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662 > e-mail: carlos.pardo@sutp.org > P?gina: www.sutp.org > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org] En > nombre de Lloyd Wright > Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 22 de Noviembre de 2006 08:40 a.m. > Para: Sustran-discuss@jca.apc.org > Asunto: [sustran] Guangzhou bans electric bicycles > > http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/39099/story.htm > > China's Easy Riders Deride Electric Bike Ban > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > CHINA: November 22, 2006 > > BEIJING - A ban on battery-powered bicycles in the southern China city of > Guangzhou has left tens of thousands of owners grounded without compensation > and angered vendors who face lost business, local media reported on Tuesday. > > > The ban, effective a day after police announced it last week but allowing a > "15-day education period", was aimed at preventing electric-powered bikes > from > becoming "the main mode of transport", Xinhua reported. "If such bikes are > permitted, this will certainly rapidly increase the burden on roads," Xinhua > quoted police as saying. > > Guangzhou, a booming Pearl River Delta city of about 10 million often choked > with traffic jams, was China's fifth-fastest growing car market in the first > half of 2006, state media has reported. > > The city has about 870,000 cars, Xinhua reported last week, growing at about > 150,000 every year. Police also cited safety concerns and the inability to > effectively enforce traffic regulations on electric-bike riders. > > "These riders have never received any special riding training or tests, so > their driving skills are very difficult to guarantee." > > Police added that compensation would not be given to bike owners as they had > been urged "through the media" not to buy bikes and in any case, the > Guangzhou > government had "never permitted" them. > > At least 100,000 residents ride electric bikes every day in Guangzhou, which > at 1,000-3,000 yuan (US$125-US$380) are a cheap and increasingly popular > form > of transport in Chinese cities. > > But several local governments have banned the bikes which require no licence > and are exempt from registration fees. > > Beijing has confined electric bikes to its outer suburbs, although riders > regularly flout the regulation. > > Over 100 electric bike manufacturers, vendors and riders held a rally in a > Guangzhou hotel to protest the ban, the Yangcheng Evening News, a Guangzhou > daily, reported. > > "Allow the orderly and healthy development of electric bicycles and don't > simply kill them off!" the paper quoted protesters as saying. > > The group issued a joint communique, saying the authorities "had not fully > consulted the will of the people". > > Construction Ministry Vice Minister Qiu Baoxing earlier this year slammed > city > planners for pandering to private car owners and ignoring the needs of > ordinary pedal cyclists, saying China should remain the "kingdom of > bicycles". > > > Qiu lamented that some Chinese cities were cutting back on bicycle lanes in > order to make more room for cars, even as some Western cities were building > more lanes for cyclists. > > REUTERS NEWS SERVICE > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > From sksunny at gmail.com Sat Nov 25 04:26:29 2006 From: sksunny at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 02:26:29 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <3724.86.71.26.161.1164299518.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> References: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> <3724.86.71.26.161.1164299518.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> Message-ID: <45674765.6050307@gmail.com> Yes I would say Carlos idea is very nice but there is also a word of caution in his idea which I entirely agree. The electric bicycles are wonderful until they dont get fast or hit other people. I feel tht if this process is allowed then evolution of the electric bicycle into an electric Chinese version of a Harley Davidson would be inevitable. But here is where we have to question ourselves does clean air and no noise is the end of our efforts for a sustainable transport? then why do some of us dont support electric cars? My answer for these questions would be No! electric vehicles will not help us achieve the goals of ST as the safety issue is still unresolved. They are economically lucrative but socially insecure. And also I feel tht though automobile industry supports the economic growth of a country, often calculated with GDP, i dont this it is a socially beneficial industry as the technology increases less people are required for operation and hence it is not a job providing sector. Secondly, GDP as far as i know does not account for the poverty in a country so are countries with increasing GDP's are really developing (socially and environmentally)??? Please comment Sunny jmcusset@freesurf.fr wrote: > I agree entirely with Carlos. It seems crazy to ban electric bicycle in > this city. > At the time of global warming, this transport would to be encouraged in > Asian cities where the market is huge. > I hope Vietnamese authorities will not follow these China transport > measures as far as air pollution is more and more high in Hanoi and Ho Chi > Minh City. > > Dr Jean Michel CUSSET > Senior Eonomist Researcher, > Laobratoire d'Economie des Transports, Lyon, France > > The basic problem in China is the fact that automobile production has > >> been given a top priority and the government wants to do anything but >> reduce the ownership of cars. Though Qiu Boaxing stated that ?the >> country must retain its title as the kingdom of bicycles?, this >> statement is still not in practice. We?re starting to do training >> courses on sustainable transport and hope to have some impact there, >> but there?s a long way to go. >> >> And then electric bicycles: they?re wonderful, from my point of view. >> Not so fast, very very little noise, and little space requirements >> (also, in China, pretty cheap). But if users ?improve? them by >> increasing the speed of the vehicle and start running into people, they >> won?t have much time left in the city. Another issue is that, though >> they?re electric, electricity is still coal generated? so the vehicle >> itself isn?t polluting, but the source of its power IS. >> >> >> Carlos F. Pardo From zvi at inro.ca Sat Nov 25 05:44:43 2006 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:44:43 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <45674765.6050307@gmail.com> References: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> <3724.86.71.26.161.1164299518.squirrel@arlette.freesurf.fr> <45674765.6050307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <456759BB.7060402@inro.ca> Hello again, Sunny wrote: > .... > > And also I feel tht though automobile industry supports the economic > growth of a country, often calculated with GDP, i dont this it is a > socially beneficial industry as the technology increases less people are > required for operation and hence it is not a job providing sector. > I certainly do NOT think that development centered around the auto-industry is "beneficial" (certainly not in any sustainability sense)! But there are in fact a large number of multiplier effects in many sectors of the economy (steel, plastics, electronics, etc.) associated with this industry which make it very appealing decision makers. To say nothing of the massive investment in both road and rail infrastructure which is employing literally millions of people in China. In many ways, Growth itself has become the driving force behind the Chinese economy! At some point this growth will slow down, and then what? > Secondly, GDP as far as i know does not account for the poverty in a > country so are countries with increasing GDP's are really developing > (socially and environmentally)??? Please comment > Of course GDP is a very flawed measure of "development" - I intentionally did not refer to any specific method in my previous posting. There are many different ways of comparing aggregate measures of "development": there are the standard national income accounts , various green accounting measures , indicators of sustainable development , of happiness ,of well-being , etc. and then there are measures which are more focused on sustainable urban transportation . My point is just that there is a very strong correlation between energy consumption and "economic development" (no matter how this is measured). Presumably most of the people on the planet still want to improve their level of "development", so on current trends this implies huge increases in energy consumption (and everything associated with that). I think that it is safe to say that current levels of energy consumption per "unit of economic output" are not sustainable. The question is, how can we maintain (and improve) our level of development while decreasing our energy consumption? Cheers, Zvi From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Sat Nov 25 05:54:43 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:54:43 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Road Pricing/Congestion Charging Message-ID: <064a01c7100a$d90e5120$6501a8c0@Home> I give up. There has been so much interesting discussion over these last months and weeks, and so much action going on in so many places, that we have decided today to open the first Accelerated Learning Sessions under the Sustainable Cities/New Mobility Policy Dialogues program that is to meet in Monaco in the last three days of March next, as well to make it into the subject of one of our very first Briefs under the New Mobility Advisory/Briefs program (http://newmobilitybriefs.org). The information and details on all this will be posted on the Monaco site at http://www.monaco.newmobility.org early next week, and in parallel on the Briefs site.. As you most assuredly know this is one area of transport policy and practice in which there are a lot more opinions than solid information, and even more important informed perspective from the vantage of the decision makers who need to figure out if this might make sense for their cities. It is in this area that I think our group can make some very useful contributions. We have after all been looking at this for a very long time now and in such a wide range of places. Stay tuned, and share your thoughts on this with me in private, or if you feel it is appropriate with the group as a whole. Eric Britton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061124/a35500d3/attachment.html From cherry at berkeley.edu Sat Nov 25 08:10:20 2006 From: cherry at berkeley.edu (cherry at berkeley.edu) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:10:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles Message-ID: <4632.75.30.113.185.1164409820.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu> Hopefully this doesn?t post twice, I had a computer glitch. Sorry in advance if it did. Chinese policy makers in have cited safety, lead pollution, contribution to congestion and ?image? as reasons for banning ebikes in Guangzhou and trying in Beijing. Electric bikes are very good on many levels. They provide mobility that is unmatched by almost any other mode and no tailpipe emissions. They do use electricity from predominately coal power plants, but even so, the emission rates per km are lower than most other modes. The human health impacts of power plant emissions in rural areas are likely lower than tailpipe emissions in dense cities. The biggest problem with ebikes is lead from battery use. Ebike batteries are about the same size as car batteries and they go through them rather fast. A lot of lead is lost during the manufacture and recycling processes, so even 100% recycling wouldn?t fix this problem. This isn?t a problem with ebikes, it?s a problem with the lead industry and the sooner ebikes transition into Li-ion or NiMH batteries the better. The ebike industry might need some regulatory ?help? making this transition. Ebikes aren?t necessarily unsafe, they are simply vulnerable, like bicyclists. Based on some data I?ve seen, they are no more unsafe that bicycles and they are much safer than cars. The safety argument doesn?t hold a lot of water in my opinion. The problem with most of the policy that is being developed is that policy makers are not considering alternative modes once ebikes are regulated. Ebikes are unsafe, dirty, congestion causing compared to what mode. Compare them to cars and ebikes win on most metrics. Compare them to bicycles and they don?t. Most ebikers would otherwise use bus or bicycle, so the environmental/energy impact difference is small. The big benefit of ebikes that is not considered is the high levels of mobility and accessibility that they provide to lower income residents. These impacts are not being considered. The point is that this is not a completely green or sustainable transportation mode, but with some minor improvements and compared to the future alternative modes as incomes rise- it performs really well. This is the subject of my dissertation research in which addresses the above issues. Email me or check out my website if you would like to see some working papers or preliminary results. Christopher Cherry PhD Candidate Institute of Transportation Studies University of California, Berkeley cherry@berkeley.edu www.ce.berkeley.edu/~cherry www.its.berkeley.edu/volvocenter From Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org Mon Nov 27 00:06:02 2006 From: Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo SUTP) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:06:02 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <45674765.6050307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c7116c$64e3f670$1e02a8c0@archibaldo> Sunny, But maybe clean air + no noise (environmental factors) + low speeds (road safety factor) could improve the situation. That's why I like e-bikes (and bicycles, for that matter!). But yes, it's a good point. Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo -----Mensaje original----- De: sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org] En nombre de Sunny Enviado el: Viernes, 24 de Noviembre de 2006 02:26 p.m. Para: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Asunto: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles Yes I would say Carlos idea is very nice but there is also a word of caution in his idea which I entirely agree. The electric bicycles are wonderful until they dont get fast or hit other people. I feel tht if this process is allowed then evolution of the electric bicycle into an electric Chinese version of a Harley Davidson would be inevitable. But here is where we have to question ourselves does clean air and no noise is the end of our efforts for a sustainable transport? then why do some of us dont support electric cars? My answer for these questions would be No! electric vehicles will not help us achieve the goals of ST as the safety issue is still unresolved. They are economically lucrative but socially insecure. And also I feel tht though automobile industry supports the economic growth of a country, often calculated with GDP, i dont this it is a socially beneficial industry as the technology increases less people are required for operation and hence it is not a job providing sector. Secondly, GDP as far as i know does not account for the poverty in a country so are countries with increasing GDP's are really developing (socially and environmentally)??? Please comment Sunny jmcusset@freesurf.fr wrote: > I agree entirely with Carlos. It seems crazy to ban electric bicycle in > this city. > At the time of global warming, this transport would to be encouraged in > Asian cities where the market is huge. > I hope Vietnamese authorities will not follow these China transport > measures as far as air pollution is more and more high in Hanoi and Ho Chi > Minh City. > > Dr Jean Michel CUSSET > Senior Eonomist Researcher, > Laobratoire d'Economie des Transports, Lyon, France > > The basic problem in China is the fact that automobile production has > >> been given a top priority and the government wants to do anything but >> reduce the ownership of cars. Though Qiu Boaxing stated that ?the >> country must retain its title as the kingdom of bicycles?, this >> statement is still not in practice. We?re starting to do training >> courses on sustainable transport and hope to have some impact there, >> but there?s a long way to go. >> >> And then electric bicycles: they?re wonderful, from my point of view. >> Not so fast, very very little noise, and little space requirements >> (also, in China, pretty cheap). But if users ?improve? them by >> increasing the speed of the vehicle and start running into people, they >> won?t have much time left in the city. Another issue is that, though >> they?re electric, electricity is still coal generated? so the vehicle >> itself isn?t polluting, but the source of its power IS. >> >> >> Carlos F. Pardo -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org Mon Nov 27 02:52:41 2006 From: Carlos.Pardo at sutp.org (Carlos F. Pardo SUTP) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:52:41 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <4565CD55.4080609@inro.ca> Message-ID: <00a401c71183$abe70320$1e02a8c0@archibaldo> Zvi, I think expensive bicycles are normally used for sports such as mountain biking or road riding (high end bikes of these can go up to 10k USD!). Since I also ride bike as a sport, I have a pretty expensive mountain bike, but what I normally ride every day is a 100 USD city bike that is about to fall apart. I guess I want to say that the "luxury" bike is not for transport, as is the case with the "luxury" car. It's also easier to have a "luxury bike" and a "cheap and functional bike" than having both in cars. I think any mode of transport should be exactly that: a mode of transport. Additional "characteristics" of any mode such as luxury will make it (or the other modes) less equitable, no? Todd Litman's paper on "mobility as a positional good" is focused on a similar issue from an economical perspective. Best regards, Carlos F. Pardo Coordinador de Proyecto GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC) Cl 126 # 52A-28 of 404 Bogot? D.C., Colombia Tel: ?+57 (1) 215 7812 Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662 e-mail: carlos.pardo@sutp.org P?gina: www.sutp.org -----Mensaje original----- De: sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org] En nombre de Zvi Leve Enviado el: Jueves, 23 de Noviembre de 2006 05:33 p.m. Para: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Asunto: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles It is clear that China has a very strong motivation to leverage it's burgeoning auto industry as an 'engine of economic growth'. The US did this very successfully in the past, as did Japan, so why shouldn't China do the same thing? Of course we all recognize that 'sustainable' auto-mobility in China is physically not possible, but that does not prevent them from wanting to expand into foreign markets for 'lower-end' vehicles (ie other developing countries). There is one thing which I do not understand about bicycles. In certain countries, bicycles have become status symbols just like cars. It is not uncommon to find $1000+ bicycles in North America! In China, and other countries which have very large numbers of bicycles, there does not yet seem to be much interest in these 'luxury' bicycles, even though disposable incomes have greatly increased in recent years. Presumably this is because people still feel deprived of basic mobility and would prefer to upgrade to a motorized form of transportation. Even in Holland and Germany which have huge numbers of bicycles and very good access to transportation (plus quite high income levels), the bicycle is still perceived as basically a 'functional' means of transport - one does not often see expensive bicycles in these places. Any thoughts about how one can break the cycle of "economic development" leading to more motorization? If any of you have had the chance to view the highly recommended documentary "The End of Suburbia ", one of the oil executives in the film makes the point that there is a direct correlation between economic development and energy consumption. Until we can find some way to change this relationship, we are basically doomed - either we will be living in poverty or we will be consuming all of the resources of the planet (to say nothing of the pollution and other problems associated with this). Cheers, Zvi Carlos F. Pardo SUTP wrote: > The basic problem in China is the fact that automobile production has been > given a top priority and the government wants to do anything but reduce the > ownership of cars. Though Qiu Boaxing stated that ?the country must retain > its title as the kingdom of bicycles?, this statement is still not in > practice. We?re starting to do training courses on sustainable transport and > hope to have some impact there, but there?s a long way to go. > > And then electric bicycles: they?re wonderful, from my point of view. Not so > fast, very very little noise, and little space requirements (also, in China, > pretty cheap). But if users ?improve? them by increasing the speed of the > vehicle and start running into people, they won?t have much time left in the > city. Another issue is that, though they?re electric, electricity is still > coal generated so the vehicle itself isn?t polluting, but the source of its > power IS. > > > Carlos F. Pardo > Coordinador de Proyecto > GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC) > Cl 126 # 52A-28 of 404 > Bogot? D.C., Colombia > Tel: +57 (1) 215 7812 > Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662 > e-mail: carlos.pardo@sutp.org > P?gina: www.sutp.org > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org > [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org@list.jca.apc.org] En > nombre de Lloyd Wright > Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 22 de Noviembre de 2006 08:40 a.m. > Para: Sustran-discuss@jca.apc.org > Asunto: [sustran] Guangzhou bans electric bicycles > > http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/39099/story.htm > > China's Easy Riders Deride Electric Bike Ban > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > CHINA: November 22, 2006 > > BEIJING - A ban on battery-powered bicycles in the southern China city of > Guangzhou has left tens of thousands of owners grounded without compensation > and angered vendors who face lost business, local media reported on Tuesday. > > > The ban, effective a day after police announced it last week but allowing a > "15-day education period", was aimed at preventing electric-powered bikes > from > becoming "the main mode of transport", Xinhua reported. "If such bikes are > permitted, this will certainly rapidly increase the burden on roads," Xinhua > quoted police as saying. > > Guangzhou, a booming Pearl River Delta city of about 10 million often choked > with traffic jams, was China's fifth-fastest growing car market in the first > half of 2006, state media has reported. > > The city has about 870,000 cars, Xinhua reported last week, growing at about > 150,000 every year. Police also cited safety concerns and the inability to > effectively enforce traffic regulations on electric-bike riders. > > "These riders have never received any special riding training or tests, so > their driving skills are very difficult to guarantee." > > Police added that compensation would not be given to bike owners as they had > been urged "through the media" not to buy bikes and in any case, the > Guangzhou > government had "never permitted" them. > > At least 100,000 residents ride electric bikes every day in Guangzhou, which > at 1,000-3,000 yuan (US$125-US$380) are a cheap and increasingly popular > form > of transport in Chinese cities. > > But several local governments have banned the bikes which require no licence > and are exempt from registration fees. > > Beijing has confined electric bikes to its outer suburbs, although riders > regularly flout the regulation. > > Over 100 electric bike manufacturers, vendors and riders held a rally in a > Guangzhou hotel to protest the ban, the Yangcheng Evening News, a Guangzhou > daily, reported. > > "Allow the orderly and healthy development of electric bicycles and don't > simply kill them off!" the paper quoted protesters as saying. > > The group issued a joint communique, saying the authorities "had not fully > consulted the will of the people". > > Construction Ministry Vice Minister Qiu Baoxing earlier this year slammed > city > planners for pandering to private car owners and ignoring the needs of > ordinary pedal cyclists, saying China should remain the "kingdom of > bicycles". > > > Qiu lamented that some Chinese cities were cutting back on bicycle lanes in > order to make more room for cars, even as some Western cities were building > more lanes for cyclists. > > REUTERS NEWS SERVICE > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join > the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups > version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real > sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). > Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). > > -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). From hertel at zedat.fu-berlin.de Mon Nov 27 03:55:21 2006 From: hertel at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Christof Hertel) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:55:21 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <4565CD55.4080609@inro.ca> References: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo> <4565CD55.4080609@inro.ca> Message-ID: It is a little bit off topic, but still hopefully of interest: > Even in Holland > and Germany which have huge numbers of bicycles and very good access to > transportation (plus quite high income levels), the bicycle is still > perceived as basically a 'functional' means of transport - one does not > often see expensive bicycles in these places. We do have a lot of expensive bikes in Germany, but people who own one, have no time to ride it, or they don?t lock them on the street. See e.g. the following bicycle models, which all come from car-manufacturers...: http://www.porsche-bikes.com/default.aspx?language=en https://www.shop.mercedes-benz.com/pkwcollection/category.htm?category=NRZLXWNxyXWIJuICjVIK1d-142 http://www.volkswagen-bikes.de/de/11g.html http://www.audi.de/audi/de/de2/audi_shop.html If it is a solution to the problem is another question... Greetings Christof From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Mon Nov 27 17:14:28 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:14:28 +0100 Subject: [sustran] The Sigrid Rausing Trust seeks a new Director Message-ID: <026501c711fc$10c78350$6501a8c0@Home> Dear Gatnet Family, I would love to see someone from this splendid group take over this position and lead this foundation into the future. And just cause I so rarely share views or opinions with you (I guess that?s a joke?), let me add a few comments and thoughts of my own about how I for one would quite like to see this develop: 1. Our candidate takes over the job with a 5 year plan to increase the grant-giving potential by x10. (Suppose she misses and it is only doubled. Well, what about that?) 2. 10% of the available total is given over each year to Gatnet-generated projects (whatever that might mean). 3. She would name three of us (preferably with if not opposing at least non-consensual views on many important points) as unpaid advisors. 4. 20% percent of her personal salary would be placed by her in gender projects of her personal choice. Of course it has to be a woman (wouldn?t you say?) Not only is this riding with the wave of the times, but far more important than that it is a central part of the indispensable highest priority gender adjustment in our social and political organization. For which all I can say in closing is that: it?s about time. Eric Britton >From The Economist ? November 25th 2006 The Sigrid Rausing Trust seeks a new Director to lead the development of the next phase of the Trust, which currently gives grants of about ?15million per year in the fields of international human rights, women's rights, minority rights, environmental justice and social and economic rights. Applicants must have a strong interest in and understanding of international human rights and women's rights, good strategic skills, the ability to manage complex programmes and the capacity to exert strong intellectual leadership. Research or field experience in the NGO sector would be an advantage, but candidates from other sectors are welcome to apply. The salary will be ?75,000-110,000 pa + benefits, depending upon experience. For full details, including person specification, please see our website: www.sigrid-rausing-trust.org Closing date for applications is 2nd January 2007. Please send a cover letter and a CV to the following address: Sheetal Patel (Director Application), Sigrid Rausing Trust, Eardley House, 4 Uxbridge Street, London W8 7SY, or by e-mail, clearly marked 'Director Application', to info@srtrust.org to reach us by the deadline. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061127/6da1d91c/attachment.html From sujit at vsnl.com Tue Nov 28 18:59:24 2006 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:29:24 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <259kkVNna1598S18.1164202800@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net> References: <259kkVNna1598S18.1164202800@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0611280159p7a7f90fekffc9fa4cfd267d6b@mail.gmail.com> 28 November 2006 As an Indian I can see why China has taken the decision to ban electric bikes. For Asian countries, particularly those with booming economies, cars have become an extension of a person's identity and a visual symbol of his upward mobile position in society. For years we have been living in conditions of the controlled economy. A Bajaj (Italian Vespa design) scooter had a waiting period of 7 to 8 years. Now after liberalization of the economy and "steroids" in form of new opportunities created by globalization, incomes of middle class Indian (and I guess Chinese too) have shot up to levels unimaginable only a few decades back. Although this is a very minute percentage of the total population, sheer numbers makes this an economic force that has a strong impact on society and its values. Through centuries gone by, Indians were sustained by a strong spiritual foundation. Righteous living had a higher value than possession of wealth. This is fast changing especially in the urban areas where not just money but also the consumerist culture fuelled by the communications and entertainment industry is creating a situation where one's possessions become objects to be displayed and indeed determine a person's worth. I'm sure this is not unique to Asia. Europe went through a similar change after the Industrial Revolution, but that change was far slower, taking over a century to reach levels of consumption and resource depletion that began to threaten the environment. In the emerging Asian countries this change telescoped into a much shorter time-span, is making the impact far more devastating to society as well as to the environment. The result is more frightening now because we have woken up (even if late in the day) to the serious issues of environment and sustainability. This is why NGOs like ours, working in environment, sustainability, governance and democracy feel the need for urgent action driven by awareness ? of the masses as well as of the decision makers. We are trying to highlight that that this unsustainable path cannot work in the long run. Global Warming, Greenhouse gasses, depletion of resources, peaking of fossil fuel production, poisoning our air, water and food, destruction of nature and urban heritage are all signs that we are living dangerously and unsustainably. We must take note of this and not behave irresponsibly as the richer Western Nations did (and largely continue to do). We can either learn from their mistakes or fall in the same trap and waste more money and time to come out of it and repair the damage. And in spite of all odds we are optimistic, as some lessons are reaching home and we are even if slowly, beginning to see that auto-centric development is not the answer. It has not worked anywhere in the world, and it will certainly not work in Asia with its heavy burden of large populations, widespread poverty and limited financial resources. In the context of Transport policies and planning, Public Transport, Non-motorized modes of transport, protection of open spaces, public spaces, green lung areas, urban forests, natural assets and livable cities should be the goals for our cities. And these goals are incompatible with a city "driven" by the personal auto vehicle. On 11/22/06, Lloyd Wright wrote: > > http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/39099/story.htm > > China's Easy Riders Deride Electric Bike Ban > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > CHINA: November 22, 2006 > > BEIJING - A ban on battery-powered bicycles in the southern China city of > Guangzhou has left tens of thousands of owners grounded without > compensation > and angered vendors who face lost business, local media reported on > Tuesday. > > The ban, effective a day after police announced it last week but allowing > a > "15-day education period", was aimed at preventing electric-powered bikes > from > becoming "the main mode of transport", Xinhua reported. "If such bikes are > permitted, this will certainly rapidly increase the burden on roads," > Xinhua > quoted police as saying. > > Guangzhou, a booming Pearl River Delta city of about 10 million often > choked > with traffic jams, was China's fifth-fastest growing car market in the > first > half of 2006, state media has reported. > > The city has about 870,000 cars, Xinhua reported last week, growing at > about > 150,000 every year. Police also cited safety concerns and the inability to > effectively enforce traffic regulations on electric-bike riders. > > "These riders have never received any special riding training or tests, so > their driving skills are very difficult to guarantee." > > Police added that compensation would not be given to bike owners as they > had > been urged "through the media" not to buy bikes and in any case, the > Guangzhou > government had "never permitted" them. > > At least 100,000 residents ride electric bikes every day in Guangzhou, > which > at 1,000-3,000 yuan (US$125-US$380) are a cheap and increasingly popular > form > of transport in Chinese cities. > > But several local governments have banned the bikes which require no > licence > and are exempt from registration fees. > > Beijing has confined electric bikes to its outer suburbs, although riders > regularly flout the regulation. > > Over 100 electric bike manufacturers, vendors and riders held a rally in a > Guangzhou hotel to protest the ban, the Yangcheng Evening News, a > Guangzhou > daily, reported. > > "Allow the orderly and healthy development of electric bicycles and don't > simply kill them off!" the paper quoted protesters as saying. > > The group issued a joint communique, saying the authorities "had not fully > consulted the will of the people". > > Construction Ministry Vice Minister Qiu Baoxing earlier this year slammed > city > planners for pandering to private car owners and ignoring the needs of > ordinary pedal cyclists, saying China should remain the "kingdom of > bicycles". > > > Qiu lamented that some Chinese cities were cutting back on bicycle lanes > in > order to make more room for cars, even as some Western cities were > building > more lanes for cyclists. > > REUTERS NEWS SERVICE > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061128/84425ce8/attachment.html From lfwright at usa.net Tue Nov 28 20:18:52 2006 From: lfwright at usa.net (Lloyd Wright) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:18:52 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles Message-ID: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> Yes, but why ban electric bicycles and not motorcycles as well (or cars for that matter)? ------ Original Message ------ Received: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:27:23 AM EST From: "Sujit Patwardhan" To: "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles 28 November 2006 As an Indian I can see why China has taken the decision to ban electric bikes. For Asian countries, particularly those with booming economies, cars have become an extension of a person's identity and a visual symbol of his upward mobile position in society. For years we have been living in conditions of the controlled economy. A Bajaj (Italian Vespa design) scooter had a waiting period of 7 to 8 years. From sksunny at gmail.com Tue Nov 28 23:51:23 2006 From: sksunny at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:51:23 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> References: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <456C4CEB.4010305@gmail.com> That is a really good question Lloyd...but only electric bicycles are banned becoz they contain the prohibited word "bicycle" if they were called "electric motorcycles" or "electric cars" they would have actually been praised saying tht the country is very much concerned abt environment. I can understand and completely agree to entirely wht sujit said as i also come from the same country. sunny Lloyd Wright wrote: > Yes, but why ban electric bicycles and not motorcycles as well (or cars for > that matter)? > > ------ Original Message ------ > Received: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:27:23 AM EST > From: "Sujit Patwardhan" > To: "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" > Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles > > 28 November 2006 > > As an Indian I can see why China has taken the decision to ban electric > bikes. For Asian countries, particularly those with booming economies, cars > have become an extension of a person's identity and a visual symbol of his > upward mobile position in society. For years we have been living in > conditions of the controlled economy. A Bajaj (Italian Vespa design) scooter > had a waiting period of 7 to 8 years. > From sujit at vsnl.com Wed Nov 29 00:41:03 2006 From: sujit at vsnl.com (Sujit Patwardhan) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:11:03 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> References: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <4cfd20aa0611280741j2371d0c8ycf8c27ae1627d11a@mail.gmail.com> 28 November 2006 Dear Lloyd, I apologise for not expressing myself too well. When I said "As an Indian I can see why China has taken the decision to ban electric bikes" I only wanted to explain the mindset of our elite and planners who are influenced more by them than by rational and logical analysis of how best to plan urban transportation. We are fighting this attitude through advocacy in support of NMT, Public Transport, Cycling and Walking. In fact we make extensive use of your excellent publication for GTZ on Non Motorized Traffic when trying to convince policy makers to change their outdated ways of thinking. I'm glad to see Sunny's comment, though made in a lighter vein, but he is absolutely right. We need to make cycling not just acceptable but also give it a high social status for being a non-polluting, energy efficient and sustainable mode of transport. Electric bikes are certainly far better in this respect than cars or even motorcycles/scooters. -- Sujit On 11/28/06, Lloyd Wright wrote: > > Yes, but why ban electric bicycles and not motorcycles as well (or cars > for > that matter)? > > ------ Original Message ------ > Received: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:27:23 AM EST > From: "Sujit Patwardhan" > To: "Global 'South' Sustainable Transport" < > sustran-discuss@list.jca.apc.org> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles > > 28 November 2006 > > As an Indian I can see why China has taken the decision to ban electric > bikes. For Asian countries, particularly those with booming economies, > cars > have become an extension of a person's identity and a visual symbol of his > upward mobile position in society. For years we have been living in > conditions of the controlled economy. A Bajaj (Italian Vespa design) > scooter > had a waiting period of 7 to 8 years. > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to > join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the > real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you > can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries > (the 'Global South'). > -- ------------------------------------------------------ Sujit Patwardhan sujit@vsnl.com sujitjp@gmail.com "Yamuna", ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007 India Tel: 25537955 ----------------------------------------------------- Hon. Secretary: Parisar www.parisar.org ------------------------------------------------------ Founder Member: PTTF (Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum) www.pttf.net ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061128/c9f922b4/attachment.html From zvi at inro.ca Wed Nov 29 01:25:46 2006 From: zvi at inro.ca (Zvi Leve) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:25:46 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <4cfd20aa0611280741j2371d0c8ycf8c27ae1627d11a@mail.gmail.com> References: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> <4cfd20aa0611280741j2371d0c8ycf8c27ae1627d11a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <456C630A.1090702@inro.ca> Hello, Just to reiterate Sujit's plea for greater emphasis on non-motorized modes - this extract is from a note which I sent on the side to Carlos: For those of us concerned with 'sustainable transport', one can probably agree that transport alternatives should be driven by functionality: mobility is not about 'the ride' but rather the destination (ie the trip purposes). But it is clear that most "normal" people do not subscribe to this 'purely functional' point of view. Cars have become a consumer good, just like any other - in fact they are one of the largest sellers on EBay! Cars are status symbols. People want them, and they choose their car model as an expression of who they are. Why is this OK for cars, but not for bikes? Why is it normal that people should choose cars (or some other sort of motorized vehicle) as their income increases? Why is a luxury car for transport but a luxury bike is not? Zvi ps. Sujit, you express yourself extremely well in english! Sujit Patwardhan wrote: > .... > . > We need to make cycling not just acceptable but also give it a high > social status for being a non-polluting, energy efficient and > sustainable mode of transport. Electric bikes are certainly far better > in this respect than cars or even motorcycles/scooters. > > -- > Sujit > From sksunny at gmail.com Wed Nov 29 02:53:40 2006 From: sksunny at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:53:40 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <456C630A.1090702@inro.ca> References: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> <4cfd20aa0611280741j2371d0c8ycf8c27ae1627d11a@mail.gmail.com> <456C630A.1090702@inro.ca> Message-ID: <456C77A4.4000608@gmail.com> Hi again, I could not resist myself from responding and apologies if annoying ;)....yes Zvi is entirely right and poses some complicated questions in a very simple form. In my opinion i guess (just a hypothesis) my answer to why people choose cars or why car sales are more is becoz cars are projected to be more fancy and luxurious in the media or the movies every where we find actors in cars...do we even find any advertisement on the TV or an actor riding a bicycle...(I wish bond did)...this i guess creates a psychological effect on the people and people start feeling tht bicycles are low grade or are for the lower echelons... 2ndly, the space devouted to cars in our developing cities is actually increasing which is making bicycles safe...but people (majority of them) dont realise this....and tend to believe tht bicycles are naturally unsafe. the contrary is seen in most of the European world where bicycles and NMT is given more priority. When this situation is said, I personally have experienced from, many people say that it is the culture of the west (which i sincerely doubt). I therefore believe tht normal people are psychologically (and falsely) programmed tht bicycles are bad and cars are safe...and govts in many cases support this view as they are also comprised of people. While still we r in the topic, sujit said in his earlier post abt the modules of GTZ-SUTP also published a module on Public Awareness and Behavioural change and it address some of the issues on how public could be convinced cheers, sunny P.S: I would also request the readers to post any studies that they know of on the relation between human psychology and car dependency. To add to Zvi's questions "What makes people choose cars over bicycles?" Zvi Leve wrote: > Hello, > > Just to reiterate Sujit's plea for greater emphasis on non-motorized > modes - this extract is from a note which I sent on the side to Carlos: > > For those of us concerned with 'sustainable transport', one can probably > agree that transport alternatives should be driven by functionality: > mobility is not about 'the ride' but rather the destination (ie the trip > purposes). But it is clear that most "normal" people do not subscribe to > this 'purely functional' point of view. Cars have become a consumer > good, just like any other - in fact they are one of the largest sellers > on EBay! Cars are status symbols. People want them, and they choose > their car model as an expression of who they are. Why is this OK for > cars, but not for bikes? Why is it normal that people should choose cars > (or some other sort of motorized vehicle) as their income increases? Why > is a luxury car for transport but a luxury bike is not? > > Zvi > > ps. Sujit, you express yourself extremely well in english! > > Sujit Patwardhan wrote: > >> .... >> . >> We need to make cycling not just acceptable but also give it a high >> social status for being a non-polluting, energy efficient and >> sustainable mode of transport. Electric bikes are certainly far better >> in this respect than cars or even motorcycles/scooters. >> >> -- >> Sujit From c_bradshaw at rogers.com Wed Nov 29 02:25:41 2006 From: c_bradshaw at rogers.com (Chris Bradshaw) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:25:41 -0500 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles References: <001701c70f19$7a8c42c0$0200a8c0@archibaldo><4565CD55.4080609@inro.ca> Message-ID: <029001c71318$29f6ee20$0202a8c0@acer56fb35423d> Thanks for the references. I have heard that bikes are now being offered as an accessory to some new car models. I viewing the sites, I was surprised to find no folding bikes in the lot. Carrying a bike on the outside of a car, or dissembling it to carry it inside (and taking up all the space behind the front seats) seems to not make sense. I have been a folding-bike owner (and user, as I haven't used 700-mm-wheeled bikes for 40 years) for this reason: a full-sized frame and large wheels reduce the utility of a bike, reducing its ability to fit into mixed-mode trips, reducing its cargo carrying capacity (one can hang bags from the front handle bars without them rubbing the front tire), and they usually come with a full set of accessories. My latest, a Brompton, has fenders with mud guards, a rear carrier with two double bungie cords, a chain guard, a full generator-run light set (which is not turning out to be very reliable), a pump, and a bell. And it has 3x2 gears (internal/external) and rear suspension. It folds in 12 seconds into a 20"x20"x10" locked shape that can be carried over one's shoulder. Yes, this one is high end ($1200 U.S., bought in June from a shop in Manhattan). But our Wal-Mart sells an off-shore Next model for $150 Can. Chris Bradshaw p.s. re: "positional goods": Litman's reference to this neglects to point out that the concept shows up in people who use their lack of a car or their folding bike as a "prestige" acquisition (the term was first coined by Fred Hirsch in his 1978 book, _The Social Limits to Growth_). From sudhir at secon.in Wed Nov 29 11:27:40 2006 From: sudhir at secon.in (Sudhir) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:57:40 +0530 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles References: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> <4cfd20aa0611280741j2371d0c8ycf8c27ae1627d11a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003201c7135d$f1a69160$d607a8c0@SA152A> Dear Sujit, The entire concept of urban planning is flawed. If you have great distance between Origin and Destination than there is no way that NMT would become popular. No matter what TSM and TDM strategies the government would implement, the personal transport is going to increase enormously. If during the preparation of Master Plans the concept of sustainable transport is introduced than only we can see some rapid changes. It is a high time that the government implements master plans with concept of sustainable transport inbuilt in it. Regards Sudhir -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061129/be13fe6d/attachment.html From Jimmy.Tan at komag.com Wed Nov 29 12:19:04 2006 From: Jimmy.Tan at komag.com (Jimmy Tan KocAun) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:19:04 +0800 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <029001c71318$29f6ee20$0202a8c0@acer56fb35423d> Message-ID: <9198E3066DD3CF4F8841DA007E702EE70F1194D4@psvr05> But.. Chris, A 700C bicycle or a 26inch is a much practical commute around the city with it's uneven road and pot holes. And not to mention it gets you from point A to B much faster. But then again the situation I'm in whereby I can get around the block with my bike without the help any mix-mode of transport. I feel that whether a 700C, a folding bike or recumbent bikes has it's place in our daily grind. On the Electric bicycles and luxury bikes, as a cyclist on sports circuit and off (commuting to work and off to the park/coffee on Sundays). Yes I do own a number of bicycles for it's different usage. As of all bicycles whether is $10,000 or $100 it's still a bicycle to the naked eyes of the policy makers. It this sense there are still some guild lines in the road policies that cover a cyclist and in some instances you are insured as well. But for Electrical bicycles as it still new mode of transport for most places, hence a lot of road polices hasn't been drawn up to cover them. Electrical bicycles are still in the 'grey area' whereby they are in between a bicycle and a motorbike. For instance the speed of the Electric Bicycle is much higher then that of a bicycle and lower then a motorbike. And do keep in mind, that Electric bicycle is also a motorize transportation. This in most cases falls under the motor vehicle licensing board, which one must own a license to operate this vehicle. In the worst case, maybe it easier for policy makers to ban them, then to start a whole new study to in cooperate then in ones road transport system. Sad indeed. Jimmy Tan Just A cyclist -----Original Message----- From: sustran-discuss-bounces+jimmy.tan=komag.com@list.jca.apc.org [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+jimmy.tan=komag.com@list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of Chris Bradshaw Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:26 AM To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles Thanks for the references. I have heard that bikes are now being offered as an accessory to some new car models. I viewing the sites, I was surprised to find no folding bikes in the lot. Carrying a bike on the outside of a car, or dissembling it to carry it inside (and taking up all the space behind the front seats) seems to not make sense. I have been a folding-bike owner (and user, as I haven't used 700-mm-wheeled bikes for 40 years) for this reason: a full-sized frame and large wheels reduce the utility of a bike, reducing its ability to fit into mixed-mode trips, reducing its cargo carrying capacity (one can hang bags from the front handle bars without them rubbing the front tire), and they usually come with a full set of accessories. My latest, a Brompton, has fenders with mud guards, a rear carrier with two double bungie cords, a chain guard, a full generator-run light set (which is not turning out to be very reliable), a pump, and a bell. And it has 3x2 gears (internal/external) and rear suspension. It folds in 12 seconds into a 20"x20"x10" locked shape that can be carried over one's shoulder. Yes, this one is high end ($1200 U.S., bought in June from a shop in Manhattan). But our Wal-Mart sells an off-shore Next model for $150 Can. Chris Bradshaw p.s. re: "positional goods": Litman's reference to this neglects to point out that the concept shows up in people who use their lack of a car or their folding bike as a "prestige" acquisition (the term was first coined by Fred Hirsch in his 1978 book, _The Social Limits to Growth_). -------------------------------------------------------- IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via YAHOOGROUPS. Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. ================================================================ SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global South'). ********************* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE ************************ This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain Komag confidential and/or attorney-client privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Komag, Inc. ********************************************************************* From sksunny at gmail.com Wed Nov 29 15:54:54 2006 From: sksunny at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:54:54 +0700 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <003201c7135d$f1a69160$d607a8c0@SA152A> References: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> <4cfd20aa0611280741j2371d0c8ycf8c27ae1627d11a@mail.gmail.com> <003201c7135d$f1a69160$d607a8c0@SA152A> Message-ID: <456D2EBE.7000403@gmail.com> Dear Sudhir, Yes you are right the concept of urban planning is flawed but at the same time we should not forget tht transport and planning are intricately linked and are interdependent. The origin and destination distance increases as the plan is done keeping the personal automobiles in mind if the govt had considered NMT then a city plan would have been compact. When you said TDM would not work I would disagree becoz TDM is not just managing mobility but also having a good planning practice. Smart growth, universal design etc...are TDM procedure and when govts implement TDM startegies it is not just one strategy they need to implement becoz again the techniques are interdependent so other techniques are also to be implemented like when a govt implements a bicycle plan then ther have to be enough facility for the bicycle parking and reduction in parking spaces improvements in public transport. just mere implementation of bicycle lanes will do no good. I would suggest www.vtpi.org for an impressive on-line TDM encyclopaedia. You can see the links between TDM techniques in every strategy. you can also refer to GTZ-SUTP module on Mobility Management. cheers sunny Sudhir wrote: > > Dear Sujit, > > > > The entire concept of urban planning is flawed. > > If you have great distance between Origin and Destination than there > is no way that NMT would become popular. > > No matter what TSM and TDM strategies the government would implement, > the personal transport is going to increase enormously. > > If during the preparation of Master Plans the concept of sustainable > transport is introduced than only we can see some rapid changes. > > It is a high time that the government implements master plans with > concept of sustainable transport inbuilt in it. > > > > Regards > > Sudhir > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061129/fbb8be44/attachment.html From papon at inrets.fr Wed Nov 29 19:41:28 2006 From: papon at inrets.fr (Francis Papon) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:41:28 +0100 Subject: [sustran] Re: Guangzhou bans electric bicycles In-Reply-To: <456D2EBE.7000403@gmail.com> References: <597kkbLR18314S13.1164712732@uwdvg013.cms.usa.net> <4cfd20aa0611280741j2371d0c8ycf8c27ae1627d11a@mail.gmail.com> <003201c7135d$f1a69160$d607a8c0@SA152A> <456D2EBE.7000403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <182aa3e2774f01222a016cec1ad4c7ce@inrets.fr> Dear sustainable readers, To come back to the Chinese situation, Shanghai has a very comprehensive metropolitan planning process, with help of foreign experts. The Shanghai Metropolitan Transport White Paper published 2002 sets the principles, objectives and actions. The priority of the plan that is clearly stated is rail mass transit. Nevertheless, the first concrete chapter begins with the need for more road building. And it is clear from the way the text is written that the major concern is the free flowing of traffic, though sustainability issues have been taken into account. So the traffic mix should be reduced to improve efficiency. Motorcycles are banned from the central area. Mopeds should disappear and convert to public transport (that does not seem to conveniently serves the same needs). Bicycles are banned from arterials and should stick to side streets (which are not denied motor vehicle access). In 2006, road projects to be implemented before 2005 are built, rail projects should wait until 2007, bus lanes and bicycle routes are not yet implemented. Here is a sample of the White paper recommendations as far as bicycles and mopeds are concerned. There is no mention of electric bikes. II. Guiding the Bicycles in Reasonable Operation Basis 10.11 The transport mode by bicycle is free-pollution, good to health, convenient and economized, so it is an important transport mode for short distance travel. 10.12 The bicycle is the mostly-used transport tool by the residents. But the interference of motor vehicles and non motor vehicles with each other not only lowers the operation efficiency of roads, but also constitutes the threats to the transport safety. 10.13 With the growth of city and the increase of the residents? living level, the application scope and times of bicycles will be smaller and smaller. Principle 10.14 Actively guide the long distance travel by bicycle to public transport. 10.15 Actively improve the transport conditions to give the play to the bicycle?s functions of short distance travel and transfer to the public transport. Objective 10.16 By 2005 decrease the total trips of bicycle in the whole city by 25% of the year 2000 and instruct the bicycles to travel within 30 minutes by 2020. 10.17 Improve the passage conditions for the bicycles and the interchange conditions with public transport to lessen the conflict between the motor vehicles and non motor vehicles and reduce the traffic accident ratio. Actions 10.18 Further implement the measures to separate the flows of motor vehicles and non motor vehicles. Through modifying and establishing parallel branches of the roads for motor vehicles only, actively create conditions to gradually form the area bicycle passage network (See Figure 10-1). 10.19 Add bicycle-parking facilities at public transport hubs and at the commercial streets in the central area. 10.20 Strengthen the management and enforcement of punishment regulations to lessen the bicycle?s violation. III. Urging the Transfer of Mopeds to Public Transport Basis 10.21 The moped extends the travel scope of riders. Its growth is very rapid in the area without advanced public transport system. But it always drives on the lanes for other vehicles, e.g., driving on the lanes for motor vehicles to interfere their speed and ordinary transport order, driving on non motor vehicle lanes to affect the safety of the bicycles and results in the increase of traffic accident ratio. 10.22 Except its interference to normal traffic order, the fuel-consumption mopeds made greatly pollutes the environment, which is harmful to the image of Shanghai as an international metropolis. 10.23 From the view of the efficiency of the urban transport and the comfort of residents? travel, the slow mode transport including mopeds is suitable for medium and short distance trips. With the perfecting of public transport network and raise of its service level, mopeds will gradually be eliminated. Principle 10.24 Measures will be taken on the time when management is strengthened to enhance the advantages of public transport and direct mopeds to transfer to public transport so as to obviously improve the urban traffic order and maintain traffic safety. Objective 10.25 By various measures such as greatly developing public transport, mopeds will generally be eliminated by 2005. Before that, the substitution of LPG mopeds for the licensed fuel-consumption mopeds is permitted by the end of 2005. Action 10.26 Stop the sales of fuel mopeds. 10.27 Strengthen the annual check to the mopeds, never allowing the mopeds not checked to drive on the roads. Strengthen the road check and rectify the mopeds without licenses or with false licenses. 10.28 Extend gradually the limited scope of the passage for mopeds according to the road traffic conditions. 10.29 Improve the service level for public transport, and further extend the public transport routes to remote areas in order to provide better alternatives for the users of mopeds. Le 29 nov. 06, ? 07:54, Sunny a ?crit : > Dear Sudhir, > > Yes you are right the concept of urban planning is flawed but at the > same time we should not forget tht transport and planning are > intricately linked and are interdependent. The origin and destination > distance increases as the plan is done keeping the personal > automobiles in mind if the govt had considered NMT then a city plan > would have been compact. > > When you said TDM would not work I would disagree becoz TDM is not > just managing mobility but also having a good planning practice. Smart > growth, universal design etc...are TDM procedure and when govts > implement TDM startegies it is not just one strategy they need to > implement becoz again the techniques are interdependent so other > techniques are also to be implemented like when a govt implements a > bicycle plan then ther have to be enough facility for the bicycle > parking and reduction in parking spaces improvements in public > transport. just mere implementation of bicycle lanes will do no good. > > I would suggest www.vtpi.org for an impressive on-line TDM > encyclopaedia. You can see the links between TDM techniques in every > strategy. you can also refer to GTZ-SUTP module on Mobility > Management. > > cheers > sunny > > > Sudhir wrote: >> Dear Sujit, >> ? >> The entire concept of urban planning is flawed. >> If you have great distance between Origin and Destination than there >> is no way that NMT would become popular. >> No matter what TSM and TDM strategies the government would implement, >> the personal transport is going to increase enormously.? >> If during the preparation of Master Plans the concept of sustainable >> transport is introduced than only we can see some rapid changes. >> It is a high time that the government implements master plans with >> concept of sustainable transport inbuilt in it. >> ? >> Regards >> Sudhir > > -------------------------------------------------------- > IMPORTANT NOTE to everyone who gets sustran-discuss messages via > YAHOOGROUPS. > > Please go to http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights. The > yahoogroups version is only a mirror and 'members' there cannot post > to the real sustran-discuss (even if the yahoogroups site makes it > seem like you can). Apologies for the confusing arrangement. > > ================================================================ > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing > countries (the 'Global South'). Francis Papon, mailto:papon@inrets.fr, tel +33 (0)1 4740 7270, ICPC,INRETS/DEST/EEM/HEGEL, Researcher at the Department of Transport Economics and Sociology at the French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research INRETS, 2, avenue du General Malleret-Joinville, 94114 Arcueil Cedex, France -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type text/enriched From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Thu Nov 30 02:49:03 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:49:03 +0100 Subject: [sustran] shared space In-Reply-To: <99BC4469DAFBD540AB23A3E2830301E2026DDB5D@europa.COF.Local> Message-ID: <089801c713de$ae3eb0c0$6501a8c0@Home> It sure is called "Motor Mania" David and others -- and if you want to check it out you will find it in our little informal "Old Mobility Evidence (Oops)" video library, fourth from left at http://www.youtube.com/groups_videos?name=oldmobility &page=2 And BTW, it ain't funny. Eric Britton From: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Nicholson Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:36 AM To: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [LotsLessCars] shared space I have seen the Disney film - it was called "Motor Mania" and I think it was produced in the late 1950's. -----Original Message----- From: LotsLessCars@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:LotsLessCars@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roland Sapsford Sent: Wednesday, 29 November 2006 2:01 AM To: LotsLessCars@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [LotsLessCars] shared space Hi This discussion about the psychology of traffic and driver behaviour is an interesting one and an area I have often thought neglected in literature. I wonder if there is much serious research around about perceptual distortions etc in relation to cars and car dependence. It strikes me that there is a social addiction to motor vehicles at present and this has all sorts of implications. Chris Bradshaw's suggestion below reminds me of an idea I have often thought would be effective - the penalty for speeding ought to be wheel-clamping, or some such immobilisation, for a couple of hours rather than a fine of some sort. People who speed are putting their own perceived desire for speed ahead of others wellbeing - and particularly for the better off may value this time more highly than a financial penalty. Far better I think to impose a penalty where it is their own value of time that is deducted. I also wonder if anyone recalls the details of the famous Walt Disney film about how Goofy is transformed from mild-mannered individual into angry driver simply by entering a car. Best wishes Roland Sapsford Wellington, New Zealand Chris Bradshaw wrote: > From: Carlos F. Pardo SUTP > > >> Great question. I think we lose our ability to negotiate traffic when >> we're going too fast (e.g. above 30 km/h). That's when (and why) we >> need other measures. But you're right, there are sometimes too many >> stop lights. I think we shouldn't be at any of the two opposite ends >> of enforcement vs "live and let live". >> > > This is indeed the missing factor. Higher traffic speeds is the goal > for the engineers who have added traffic controls to city streets. > When you propose shared spaces, you are proposing a "naked street," a > street lacking these controls. > > As speed increases, formalities of interaction are necessary. In a > world where speeds do not exceed walking (which was the case in cities > before the advent of railed transit), no traffic controls are > necessary. Everyone road user can simply look out for their own way, > and thereby are looking out for others' welfare simultaneously. And, > there are no "separators" such as tinted windshields to add anonymity > (which reduces the sense of accountability and guilt for collisions). > > Remember, the growth in automobility is paralleled by the growth in > average speed. Traffic controls was the focus. And any reference to "safety" > really meant that the objective was higher speeds. The price one is > willing to pay for a car is directly proportion to the expected speed > it car be driven -- as well as how often. > > Where are the treaties where walkers gave up their right to > governments and their road engineers to walk wherever, and to do so > without the contrived obstacles of traffic controls (and the "safety" justification for same)? > > Chris Bradshaw > Ottawa > > p.s., I have proposed for some time that a motorist who strikes a > pedestrian or cyclist, regardless of fault, should lose the right to > drive for as long as the vulnerable road user is unable to resume the > mode of transportation they were using at the time of the collision. > If that person dies, the driver faces a lifetime driving ban. > (Ironically, the deprivation the ensues is lessened in one lives in a > city with good transit.) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.jca.apc.org/public/sustran-discuss/attachments/20061129/1cd4ef20/attachment.html From Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org Thu Nov 30 02:49:50 2006 From: Eric.Britton at ecoplan.org (Eric Britton) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:49:50 +0100 Subject: [sustran] shared space In-Reply-To: <99BC4469DAFBD540AB23A3E2830301E2026DDB5D@europa.COF.Local> Message-ID: <089d01c713de$d81fab10$6501a8c0@Home> It sure is called "Motor Mania" David and others -- and if you want to check it out you will find it in our little informal "Old Mobility Evidence (Oops)" video library, fourth from left at http://www.youtube.com/groups_videos?name=oldmobility &page=2 And BTW, it ain't funny. Eric Britton From: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Nicholson Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:36 AM To: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [LotsLessCars] shared space I have seen the Disney film - it was called "Motor Mania" and I think it was produced in the late 1950's. -----Original Message----- From: LotsLessCars@ yahoogroups.com [mailto:LotsLessCars@ yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roland Sapsford Sent: Wednesday, 29 November 2006 2:01 AM To: LotsLessCars@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [LotsLessCars] shared space Hi This discussion about the psychology of traffic and driver behaviour is an interesting one and an area I have often thought neglected in literature. I wonder if there is much serious research around about perceptual distortions etc in relation to cars and car dependence. It strikes me that there is a social addiction to motor vehicles at present and this has all sorts of implications. Chris Bradshaw's suggestion below reminds me of an idea I have often thought would be effective - the penalty for speeding ought to be wheel-clamping, or some such immobilisation, for a couple of hours rather than a fine of some sort. People who speed are putting their own perceived desire for speed ahead of others wellbeing - and particularly for the better off may value this time more highly than a financial penalty. Far better I think to impose a penalty where it is their own value of time that is deducted. I also wonder if anyone recalls the details of the famous Walt Disney film about how Goofy is transformed from mild-mannered individual into angry driver simply by entering a car. Best wishes Roland Sapsford Wellington, New Zealand Chris Bradshaw wrote: > From: Carlos F. Pardo SUTP > > >> Great question. I think we lose our ability to negotiate traffic when >> we're going too fast (e.g. above 30 km/h). That's when (and why) we >> need other measures. But you're right, there are sometimes too many >> stop lights. I think we shouldn't be at any of the two opposite ends >> of enforcement vs "live and let live". >> > > This is indeed the missing factor. Higher traffic speeds is the goal > for the engineers who have added traffic controls to city streets. > When you propose shared spaces, you are proposing a "naked street," a > street lacking these controls. > > As speed increases, formalities of interaction are necessary. In a > world where speeds do not exceed walking (which was the case in cities > before the advent of railed transit), no traffic controls are > necessary. Everyone road user can simply look out for their own way, > and thereby are looking out for others' welfare simultaneously. And, > there are no "separators" such as tinted windshields to add anonymity > (which reduces the sense of accountability and guilt for collisions). > > Remember, the growth in automobility is paralleled by the growth in > average speed. Traffic controls was the focus. And any reference to "safety" > really meant that the objective was higher speeds. The price one is > willing to pay for a car is directly proportion to the expected speed > it car be driven -- as well as how often. > > Where are the treaties where walkers gave up their right to > governments and their road engineers to walk wherever, and to do so > without the contrived obstacles of traffic controls (and the "safety" justification for same)? > > Chris Bradshaw > Ottawa > > p.s., I have proposed for some time that a motorist who strikes a > pedestrian or cyclist, regardless of fault, should lose the right to > drive for as long as the vulnerable road user is unable to resume the > mode of transportation they were using at the time of the collision. > If that person dies, the driver faces a lifetime driving ban. > (Ironically, the deprivation the ensues is lessened in one lives in a > city with good transit.) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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