[sustran] Re: [carfree_cities] Re: EU laws to put brake on bikers (motorcyclists) BUT BUT BUT

[Todd Edelman]

KT wrote:
>
> Motorcycles resemble to bicycles in having two wheels and to automobiles
> in having a motor. So, it is a matter of viewpoint to consider which one
> is the dominant feature:
> if you adopt a sustainability viewpoint, then they are on a par with
> automobiles
> if your purpose is to fill in the city with as much traffic as possible,
> then they are an (lucrative for some) alternative of bicycles
>
> Moreover, although I clearly oppose to the movement of bicycles on
> sidewalks, I must inform those who are not familiar with motorcycles, that
> for pedestrians the nuisance and dangers of motorcycles on the sidewalks
> are orders of magnitude more severe than that of bicycles.

IN response to the general issue in this and your following messages:

I think - and would love to agree with everyone on this list - that all
individually-operated and owned motor vehicles are really really really
terrible for cities.

1 - So the difference between motorcycles and cars and SUVs is not so big

2 - So guided (rails and/or dedicated lane) and as clean as possible
public transport is (obviously) allowed, and if affordable/desirable
should be separated from pedestrians without impeding pedestrians
(underground, green viaducts)

3 - So carsharing is a reasonable temporary measure until we redesign our
cities (narrow streets, eliminate parking) and run out of easy to find
fuel

4 - That "utopian" is a compliment, and a complement.

T
>
>
>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 21:31:21 -0600
>>From: "D. Scott TenBrink" <scott at pedalsong.net>
>>Subject: [sustran] Re: [carfree_cities] Re: EU laws to put brake on
>>	bikers	(motorcyclists) BUT BUT BUT
>>To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>>Message-ID: <20060517213121.nyxw7a890vkog0kk at www.pedalsong.net>
>>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	format="flowed"
>>
>>Todd E. said, ?I don?t think motorcycles resemble bicycles in any way.?
>>
>>In addressing motorcycle use, I think it is important to recognize the
>>similarities of bicycles and motorbikes.  They are both less expensive to
>>purchase and operate than a four-wheeled vehicle.  They consume a similar
>>amount of road and parking space.  They both tend to be single occupancy
>>vehicles (though to a less extent in Asia).  They can both move through
>>traffic
>>by accessing space between lanes, sidewalks, and other informal spaces.
>>Operators of both vehicles have a greater tendency to break traffic
>>rules and
>>be overlooked in enforcement of those rules.
>>
>>This is debatable, but I also find that there is a wider variation in
>>operating
>>behavior in these modes than in four-wheel vehicle operation.  My
>> experience
>>has been that within both bike and motorcycle operators, there are very
>>aggressive, very slow-moving, very risky, and very inexperienced riders
>>in both
>>modes.  I think the points I mention above allow for this within-group
>>variation
>>to be more easily expressed than in a car.
>>
>>Of course there are a great number of differences between the two as
>>well. I?m hardly arguing that they should be considered the same in all
>>policy, but
>>to deny any resemblance between the vehicles and their operators may
>>blind us to
>>potential obstacles and solutions.
>>
>>-Scott
>>
>
>
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> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus
> is on urban transport policy in Asia.
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------------------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
International Coordinator
On the Train Towards the Future!

Green Idea Factory
Laubova 5
CZ-13000 Praha 3

++420 605 915 970

edelman at greenidea.info
http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain

Green Idea Factory,
a member of World Carfree Network