[sustran] EU laws to put brake on bikers (motorcyclists) BUT BUT BUT

K. Tsourlakis ktsourl at mailbox.gr
Fri May 19 22:13:01 JST 2006


You may be thinking that reducing motorcycle traffic in many parts of the EU will not make a big difference, but you must realize that in those cities where motorcycles are a significant part of the traffic it will make a huge difference. I am not sure if you also imply that people living there are worth less attention, but in any case don't expect your arguments to sound them very persuasive.

I don't find logical the position, either to ban all forms of motorized traffic immediately, or leave them all. Some of them may be easier to be banned. Why not start from them? Even if this is considered by some as a small victory, it is still a victory. When environmental and living conditions start to improve, this will certainly create an incentive to follow further the carfree path, which will improve also the totality of the cities of Europe and tha whole world.

Certainly it will be nice if European Commission makes something on this point, although they are frequently accused for involving unnecessarily in local matters. But of course, not only motorcycles can cross the borders, but also pollution, mentalities and prospective road victims.


>re: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329473814-103630,00.html
>
>also, interesting information on MOTORCYCLES IN ATHENS at these links:
>http://www.geocities.com/pezosgr/motocbust.rtf
>or
>http://www.geocities.com/pezosgr/motocbust.htm
>
>and below...as well as original email.
>
>I suggest we move this discussion off the Carfree Cities as it is my
>understanding that carfree definately means motorcycle-free in the view of
>the owner of the Carfree Cities list, with no discussion possible. I just
>wanted to respond to your points.
>
>Todd
>
>---
>
>Hi KT!
>
>Thanks for your comments and criticism!
>
>>>
>>> Motorcycles may be "little guy" in Czechia, but Czechia (or perhaps
>>> North America) is not the whole world. In many South European and
>>> Asian cities (and in an ever growing number of African countries)
>>> motorcycle traffic is an important part of motorised traffic (and in
>>> many cases - e.g China or Vietnam- a first step towards car motorisation).
>
>
>I CERTAINLY dont think that Czechia or the EU or North America is the
>whole world! I should add that I sent blind copies of the original email
>to a few members of the Committee on Transport and Tourism in the European
>Commission who I thought might be or I know are sympathetic to my point of
>view.
>
>Good laws in the EU can certainly be good examples for elsewhere.
>
>Motorised two-wheelers represent a very small part of the transport mix in
>most of the northern countries of the EU, and I think most if not all of
>the new EU states. I realise that Italy, and perhaps France (and Spain?)
>are different.
>
>To summarize my opinion on your points below and in the linked page you
>provided: I absolutely agree that motorcycles are worse than many people
>think, and as bad as you claim. I just wanted to say that the restrictions
>on driving age etc should apply to both, and things like a top speed of
>30km/h should apply to all motorised vehicles (except for trams) in
>built-up areas. Again, this - if enforced by police (active) and design
>(passive) - will slow down all vehicles, and reduce some of the advantage
>of motorcycles.
>
>I dont think motorcycles resemble bicycles in any way.
>
>So, lets focus on Athens, as you suggest:
>
>>>
>>> In Athens for instance, 1 million motorcycles pollute freely the city,
>>> besides 2 million automobiles - without any (unlike cars) exhaust gas
>>> and noise controls. Motorcycling is deliberately promoted (instead of
>>> biking - Athens lacks even 1 km of bike lane) in order to maximize
>>> motorised traffic. The corrupt administration favours motorcycling
>>> because they don't compete cars, but use mostly pedestrian spaces and
>>> other free spaces (parks, squares etc) - they have also recently
>>> granted them legally free access to dedicated bus lanes. They use
>>> under police immunity sidewalks and other pedestrian spaces and act
>>> more aggressively than cars, being a major component of the violence
>>> and oppression pedestrians experience in Athens in everyday life, and
>>> an important (although unrecognised) part of the pollution of the most
>>> polluted capital in Europe.
>
>
>WELL, this certainly seems like hell. A main point of my first email was
>to question why all countries dont have the same regulations for both
>motorcycles and cars. I also understand that two-stroke-powered have been
>made illegal, and while this means they will eventually dissappear, it
>would certainly be great to get them off the streets sooner. And I
>understand your point that four-stroke is not much of an advantage (In
>Prague and other cities of the new EU especially, a HUGE problem is all
>the old Diesel trucks and service vehicles... and I have not yet found out
>how to get them off of the road or when/if laws might force it.
>
>>>
>>> You are not right: they don't only cause damage to the motorcyclists
>>> themselves, but they also kill pedestrians and bicyclists. Even the
>>> damage they bring about to themselves shouldn't be confronted with
>>> indifference, given the efforts the motorcycle lobby makes to lure
>>> inexperienced and aggression inclined people to the motorcycle
>>> ideology. However I agree with you that fines and efforts should
>>> concentrate more to the damage they cause to others (like speeding or
>>> pedestrian rights violations) than the harm they cause to themselves
>>> (like helmet use - advising rather than penalties are more appropriate
>>> in this case).
>
>
>YES, you are right, in Athens, some other southern EU cities, and in many
>parts of the developing world. In sum, many many more people than who are
>in the EU.
>
>Reducing motorcycle traffic in many  parts of the EU will not make a big
>difference. (Brussels, too, I think!). So, that is why I mention the
>"little guy": I mean this as the easiest target, not necessarily the cause
>of the least problems. (To say it another way, there is big push for
>people to unplug their computers when they are not at home, but many of
>these people leave home by car!)
>
>>>
>>> Although carfree cities is a worthy prospect, perhaps a completely
>>> carfree world is still far away, but a motorcycle free world is
>>> already feasible (and may become a first step towards the carfree
>>> vision).
>
>
>AGAIN, making Prague and other parts of the EU motorcycle-free will not
>make a big difference. It is much fairer to treat all private motorised
>transport with strict rules regarding emissions and speed... OR to really
>take them seriously - for a change - and to ban all of it immediately when
>city design/public transport can replace it via proximity and replacment
>mobility... and to start redesigning cities and improving PT so no one
>needs cars and motorcycles and no one needs them either.
>
>Four wheels bad, two wheels bad (if you have a motor), two wheels good if
>you have no motor, and pedestrians always come first.
>
>And European Commission really needs to take a look at what is happening
>in Athens and see if they are violating laws (I imagine they are regarding
>emissions) and do something to help.
>
>There are two Greeks on the Committee for Transport and Tourism: One seems
>to be very active on Womens Issues, and since women (and children) are
>known as vulnerable road users, maybe she will have an ear for your
>points. I am forwarding this email to her...
>
>See:
>http://www.europarl.europa.eu/activities/expert/committees/presentation.do?committee=1242&language=EN
>
>Thanks,
>T



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