[sustran] Re: Asia's 'only-poor-people-ride-transit',
KL monorail & isolation
Karl Fjellstrom
karl at dnet.net.id
Thu Feb 9 15:24:46 JST 2006
Su-Lin Che
I agree with you that the way the big decisions are made is the main problem
rather than any particular mode as such. I'm not saying that BRT would have
been better in Kuala Lumpur, or even that BRT is needed in KL. I don't know
enough about demand and road and traffic conditions there, though I'm sure
that you or others who are familiar with the city (Paul Barter?) have some
suggestions.
Yes, it is very difficult now in KL to take away road space from cars, but
maybe Seoul provides a relevant example. Seoul has a much more extensive
metro network, but found that traffic conditions were still deteriorating,
car reliance increasing, etc. So they built and are building a network of
medium capacity (ie. one lane) bus lanes combined with other bus system
improvements which has had impressive results. It integrates very well with
the metro, as in Hong Kong. In Seoul's case a visionary mayor deserves much
of the credit, maybe a similar figure is needed in KL?
I've always found it striking in KL that such a modern and advanced city can
have such an antiquated, neglected and generally decrepit bus system. Maybe
a first step in KL and other cities in Malaysia is to take bus sector
regulation out of the hands of the CVLB and give it to the cities?
Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
Of Su-Lin Chee
Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2006 11:22 AM
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Asia's 'only-poor-people-ride-transit',KL monorail &
isolation
Mr Fjellstrom,
Wow, your knowledge of KL's public transportation scene is impressive!
Although I can't authoritatively agree with the figures, the main
facts of what you say are true. Personally however, I would first
place the main seat of the general public transporation fiasco on the
political situation and the way big decisions are made, rather
than "mode problems" as Jain Alok has said.
For example, although the proven formula seems to be the private/quasi-
govt sector building and the public sector operating, due to capital
constraints of the government, one would think that if the government
were capable of bailing out Putra LRT later, why didn't they just
steer the whole thing right from the beginning?
One could also say the woeful integration is not just an effect from
lack of incentive but lack of faith in the entire system of integrated
planning.
I guess your main contention here is that BRTs would have been much
cheaper and more efficient. I remember going to a forum of engineers
where BRTs were presented and there being general skepticism about
giving up road space. Dedicated bus lanes have been difficult enough
to implement. KL drivers love their cars and road space too much and
would perhaps prefer temporary incursions due to rail constructions
than long-term deprivation of road space. BRTs just seem to be too far
away from the mindsets of KLites, or perhaps too progressive.
So perhaps you could enlighten me on how BRTs are much better than
existing buses on priority lanes and in improved conditions (eg
emissions & cleanliness).
> Dear Su-Lin Che,
>
> Being the 'second most successful' KL rail transit system - as you
say the
> monorail is - is not such a glowing accolade. Consider the
competition...
>
> PUTRA LRT went bankrupt and was nationalized in Nov 2001 with debts
of more
> than US$1.4 billion after only 3 years of operation. All the
contractors,
> designers, vehicle suppliers etc made fat profits and the company
they set
> up to operate PUTRA only had around 5% equity investment from them,
so they
> didn't lose much when it folded.
>
> STAR, the other main mass transit system, a heavy rail system, was
better,
> with debts of 'only' a few hundred million US$ after 5 years of
operation,
> and was also nationalized at the same time, with Ministry of Finance
> completing the takeover in September 2002.
>
> Quite apart from the financial performance the integration etc of
these
> systems was woeful, partly because the operator knew from the
beginning that
> they would never cover the operating cost, so there was not really an
> incentive to maximize passengers.
>
> As for the monorail being a fiasco, you are right this is probably a
harsh
> description and you surely know much better than me about the
system. But
> considering that:
> - it was 8 years under construction
> - a wheel fell off during a trial, striking a journalist, and
> - two years after opening they had achieved only half the projected
> passengers that they had forecast they would have 2 years earlier,
> it's at least arguable that this might qualify as a 'fiasco'. Not to
mention
> that the last monorail station stops short by 200m or so from the
main
> transit terminal at KL Sentral as you mention.
>
> The fact that it is 'almost always packed' doesn't really mean
anything,
> this just reflects the relatively long headways (5 minutes during
the peak)
> and the very low capacity of the system. At the monorail website
> (http://www.monorail.com.my/monorail-info.htm) they explain that
even under
> the most optimistic scenario it has a maximum theoretical capacity
of only
> 5,000 passnegers/hr/direction.
>
> Karl Fjellstrom
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org]
On Behalf
> Of Su-Lin Chee
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2006 10:24 AM
> To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
> Subject: [sustran] Asia's 'only-poor-people-ride-transit',KL
monorail &
> isolation
>
> As someone working on Kuala Lumpur's public transportation
information
> system, I feel behooved to respond to some preceding posts:
>
> 1. Mr. Bradshaw's sustainable transportation comments: I agree
> wholeheartedly about the frustration of seeing Asians' "only-poor-
> people-ride-transit bias." That, to me, is the paramount obstacle to
> KL's public transport usage, over and above political and economic
> issues. It is a class thinking and cars are seen as a class and
status
> symbol. Public transport, especially buses, is seen as milling
around
> with the masses and the marginals of society. The moment I mention
the
> word "buses", it seems as if a mental barrier goes up in most middle
> class and above people - of horror and non-acceptability. What to
do??
>
> 2. Mr. Fjellstromn's KL monorail comments: among KL's rail transit
> systems, the monorail may be deemed the 2nd most successful or maybe
> even the most successful, in terms of customer uptake and perceived
> relevance of route. It is almost always packed and goes through some
> of the city's most congested and popular parts. The one fiasco is
how
> the line doesn't join up with KL's train hub: KL Sentral.
>
> 3. Mr Pardo's Le Corbusier comment: Yes! The need to have engineers
to
> plan fast cities has resulted in what I feel is a very isolating
city.
> On an anecdotal level, many mid-term visitors to KL express feelings
> of alienation and a lack of ground-level community interaction.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Su-Lin Chee
>
> project manager
> klang valley public transportation information system
> vector designs
> www.vectordesigns.org
> 54a jalan kemuja
> bangsar utama
> 59000 kuala lumpur
> tel/fax +603.22826363
> mobile +6016.2183363
>
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
countries
> (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main
focus is
> on urban transport policy in Asia.
>
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>
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
countries (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list,
the main focus is on urban transport policy in Asia.
>
>
Best wishes,
Su-Lin Chee
project manager
klang valley public transportation information system
vector designs
www.vectordesigns.org
54a jalan kemuja
bangsar utama
59000 kuala lumpur
tel/fax +603.22826363
mobile +6016.2183363
================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus is
on urban transport policy in Asia.
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
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