[sustran] Re: Discipline is needed??

[Sujit Patwardhan]

The issue of discipline is brought up by all. Carlos's mail makes sensible
points.
--
Sujit


On 4/26/06, Carlos F. Pardo SUTP <carlos.pardo at sutp.org> wrote:
>
> The concept of enforcement can be applied, but not as the sole measure of
> changing driver's behavior. As Sunny notes, people may not even care about
> these rules.
>
> I sometimes think transport planners and engineers think people are cows
> and
> should be treated that way when managing transport. But we should expect
> more of people, and find innovative ways to change their behavior towards
> more sustainable transport practices. Enforcement is a first step towards
> awareness of transport users' minds, but we can go further.
>
> I love one example from Bogotá: citizens were taught to stop before cebra
> crossings with the help of a mime who would "push" cars back and allow
> pedestrians cross safely. In one year the problem was solved, and not one
> ticket was issued. People get the message... if you know how to convey it.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Carlos F. Pardo
> Coordinador de Proyecto
> GTZ - Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC)
> Cl 125bis # 41-28 of 404
> Bogotá D.C., Colombia
> Tel: +57 (1) 215 7812
> Fax: +57 (1) 236 2309
> Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662
> e-mail: carlos.pardo at sutp.org
> Página: www.sutp.org
> - Visite nuestra nueva sección de Latinoamérica y el Caribe en
> http://www.sutp.org/esp/espindex.htm
> - Únase al grupo de discusión de Transporte Sostenible en Latinoamérica
> enviando un correo a  sutp-lac-subscribe at gruposyahoo.com
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+carlos.pardo=sutp.org at list.jca.apc.org] En
> nombre de Sunny
> Enviado el: Miércoles, 26 de Abril de 2006 09:10 a.m.
> Para: sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Asunto: [sustran] Reply to Prof. JKG Discipline is needed
>
> Dear Prof,
>
> Very nice to see ur mail. from my point of view seeing Indian cities
> Bangkok and other Thai cities where car dependency is much more than
> India I feel that though strict traffic rules are implemented it might
> not reduce the traffic growth. If you compare the driving behaviour of
> Thais and Indians I would say that Thais stick to the rules, while many
> of us Indians do not care for a traffic signal when the road is clean.
> Fines would be a great idea but in India the need is more for a much
> stricter discipline among the police officials in not being corrupt. In
> my home town,Visakhapatnam, and my capital city, Hyderabad, I have seen
> traffic police checking motorists in the first and last weeks of the
> months and many of them usually take a bribe starting from 50 rupees, I
> say this as I personally experienced this situation, inspite of having
> all the required documents i was fined because my motorbike did not have
> a black dot on the headlight.
>
> So I feel that enforcing traffic rules would be a great idea for the
> sake of a policy but for the implementation it will be filling the
> pockets of the policemen and the constables and people driving usually
> get a belief that even if the police catches without a drivers license a
> 200 rupees in the pocket is enough to get away with, when this attitude
> of the police changes then we might see this present chaos into an
> "Organised Chaos".
>
> To solve this Organised Chaos even I agree with you that contemporary
> engineering solutions do no good but rather we need a social approach.
> More technological solutions will only result disadvantaging the
> vulnerable groups like the pedestrian overpasses that infest Bangkok and
> I have seen some even on the National Highways in Thailand.
>
> Another comment on the countdown signals, I presume that this method of
> ITS is disadvantageous since it can tend to increase the drivers speed
> on seeing a smaller number...kindly correct me if i understood it wrong.
>
> Coming to the main idea wht I understand from Sujit's comment was the
> issue of solving the growing need of personal mobility and a new
> solution for the present problems. I would suggest a solution that
> incorporates every user except the car user. I would ask Sujit if there
> is a possibility of introducing shared space in Pune,as I have never
> been to this wonderful city and have only heard both the good and bad
> sides of it.
>
> Shared space concept was received very well in European countries and it
> is an idea in which the car user is not given the false idea that they
> are the kings of the road and everyone else have to give way for them
> but instead in a shared space cars need to wait for the people....I
> guess many other members on this forum have personally experienced the
> merits and demerits of shared space and would be kind enough to throw
> more light on this area. I guess this idea would be good for developing
> cities like in India where we can cut the feeling of road ownership of
> car users at the roots.
>
> I would like your and other members comments on the same.
>
> Sincerely,
> Sunny
>
>
>
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus
> is
> on urban transport policy in Asia.
>
>
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus is
> on urban transport policy in Asia.
>



--
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sujitjp at gmail.com

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