[sustran] Re: Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 32, Issue 32

[Prof J G Krishnayya]

Dear Sujit,
 
I would support your point strongly, and add that the solution to the
particular point made in the video is
 
a. Discipline is needed.  This can only come about when there is
enforcement of traffic rules. E.g. in Delhi there is a minimum 50/ rupee
fine if one goes over the double white line at each intersection, but
one is srequired to wait behind the lines till the signal changes.
Think how much easier it would be to negotiate T junctions when this is
enforced. 
 
Enforcement does not need to be 100% 24x7.  Even if it is done at only
5% of the intersections for 14 hours a day, that would be enough to
instill the habit of following the rules.
 
Until the traffic police philosophy comes around to the above
conclusion, there is no hope for India, and more and more money will be
wasted on capital for overpasses, on repaving of sidewalks, removal of
trees, creation of concrete road dividers where a small raised line
would have been adequate, etc.  We must fight the practice of 
"solving" everything by throwing money at it. India and Asia in general
can easily afford more traffic police. It would be a Good Thing. But the
police payroll, housing etc are starved of funds.
 
Sincerely,
 
J G Krishnayya
There is also 
b.	Some intelligent road-furniture planning - use of roundabouts,
police-man's platforms, use of unmanned sequential timers (less
expensive than traffic signals, which are costly)
c.	Redesign of Busses.  Anyone with eyes to see can recognize that
our busses are about 1 foot too wide for comfortable maneuverability.
For exclusive use on the larger roads, articulated busses would make
sense. But at present with chaotic traffic, articulated busses would
simply add to the confusion and traffic jams.
d.	Reducing technology. At major crossings, it is entirely possible
for 1 trained policeman (backed up by law enforcement, and possibly 4
assistants who align the traffic) could handle most intersections that
are presently run with traffic lights.  I do not know if many other
Sustran readers will recall that in the 40s and 50s, Flora Fountain, in
Mumbai was manned by ONE constable - but he was impressive; he changed
signals by raising his feet when turning, and stamping, much like the
Indian and Pakistani soldiers at the Wagah border when bringing down the
flags in the evening!  He was a joy to watch, and had no trouble keeping
everyone in line, and even in those days, there was quite a lot of
traffic going 5x2 ways. There was only a small circle around the Flora
statue, and there was a through road from Churchgate to the Town Hall
(not a parking lot in the way as at present). All the roads were
two-way. Obviously if one tried something like this today, one would
need to select the men carefully for personality, and give them 1 hour
on, two hours off shifts, so that each intersection would require three
of four men to be assigned every day.  I think if there were a ranked
set of intersections in each town and city, one could very easily use
the duty there as an incentive for traffic policemen to improve their
style and performance. Right now they are very largely collection agents
for the "officers" who run around on motorcycles fining people on the
spot.
 
Prof J G Krishnayya
Director, Systems Research Institute,
17-A Gultekdi, PUNE 411037, India
www.sripune.org                 Tel +91-20-2426-0323
jkrishnayya at yahoo.com       Res 020-2636-3930
sri at giaspn01.vsnl.net.in       Fax +91-20-2444-7902
 
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+sri=pn1.vsnl.net.in at list.jca.apc.org] On
Behalf Of Sujit Patwardhan
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:36 AM
To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
Subject: [sustran] Re: Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 32, Issue 32
 


Dear Sudhir,

It would have helped if you had elaborated at least to some extent.

As an advocacy group (NGO) working on the issue of Urban Traffic and
Transportation in Pune since 1998, we too realised quite early that the
mainstream thinking, vision and perspective of the decision makers was
hopelessly outdated. By presenting data, analysis and through exposure
to new and alternative perspectives we have been able to make the
authorities "see" this to some extent, but old deeply held beliefs (like
superstition) is difficult to dispel through rational arguments alone.
So the city administration has embarked on a few good concepts like
designing BRT corridors on two or three roads on an "experimental
basis", is laying out city-wide bicycle tracks and ensuring adequate
footpaths for pedestrians but hasn't given up on the old failed concepts
like the flyovers and wider and wider roads!! 

If this is what you imply by saying:
whatever analysis we are doing in India
with respect to Traffic is not at all sufficient. We desperately require
fresh ideas and research.
we agree with you. The video forwarded by Paul shows what the sharply
growing number of auto vehicles on the roads is doing to vehicle
mobility. Traffic planners with conventional thinking hats will say 

"See the mess? We need a flyover to relieve the road congestion", 

when actually the solution would be to get an efficient and reliable
public transport in place,  that can effectively shift people from
personal vehicles to public transport. A flyover will only fuel further
demand for personal vehicle use and abstruct the movement of public
transport buses. 
--
Sujit
Sujit Patwardhan
Parisar/PTTF
Pune






On 4/25/06, sudhir gota <sudhirgota at hotmail.com
<mailto:sudhirgota at hotmail.com> > wrote:
Dear Sir,

Traffic in India (Paul Barter)


The video is only the eyeopener, you should just spend some time in
India. 
This video highlights the fact that whatever analysis we are doing in
India
with respect to Traffic is not at all sufficient. We desperately require
fresh ideas and research.

Regards
Sudhir

>From: sustran-discuss-request at list.jca.apc.org
>Reply-To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>To: sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org
>Subject: Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 32, Issue 32
>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:46:10 +0900 (JST)
>
>Send Sustran-discuss mailing list submissions to
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>Sustran-discuss Mailing List Digest
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>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. FW: Traffic in India (Paul Barter)
>    2. Re: FW: Traffic in India (Alan Howes)
>    3. Re: New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A Proposal 
>       forDiscussion (Walter Hook)
>    4. Re: New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A Proposal
>       forDiscussion (Walter Hook)
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:14:18 +0800
>From: "Paul Barter" <paulbarter at nus.edu.sg>
>Subject: [sustran] FW: Traffic in India 
>To: "Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport"
>       <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
>Message-ID:
>       <
<mailto:AB7199D76A15F747A60F2A61D2A0078C1F6CDB at MBX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
AB7199D76A15F747A60F2A61D2A0078C1F6CDB at MBX01.stf.nus.edu.sg>
>Content-Type: text/plain;      charset="us-ascii"
>
>A wonderful video clip of an Indian intersection working in ways most
>traffic engineers would never imagine in their wildest dreams. If you
>have never seen traffic in South Asia then this might come as something
>of a shock.
>
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM
> >
>
>Paul
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:16:08 +0100
>From: "Alan Howes" < Alan.Howes at cbuchanan.co.uk>
>Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: Traffic in India
>To: "Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport"
>       < <mailto:sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
>Message-ID:
>       <324DCD7680954F468CF306EE5404F001020A90C3 at mail01.cbuchanan.co.uk
>
>Content-Type: text/plain;      charset="us-ascii"
>
>Though I have to say that after my two weeks in Mumbai recently it came
>as no surprise.  Our driver thought nothing of driving the wrong way 
>down a contra-flow bus lane (not many of those in Mumbai), veering off
>onto the pavement if he happened to meet a bus.  I did not think much
of
>it either!
>
>Alan
>
>
>-- 
>Alan Howes
>Associate Transport Planner
>Colin Buchanan
>4 St Colme Street
>Edinburgh      EH3 6AA
>Scotland
>email:  alan.howes at cbuchanan.co.uk 
>tel:      (0)131 226 4693 (switchboard)
>            (0)7952 464335  (mobile)
>fax:     (0)131 220 0232
>www: http:/www.cbuchanan.co.uk/
>_______________________________
>
> 
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
>sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto:
<mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc>
sustran-discuss-bounces+alan.howes=cbuchanan.co.uk at list.jca.apc.
>org] On Behalf Of Paul Barter
>Sent: 24 April 2006 08:14
>To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
>Subject: [sustran] FW: Traffic in India 
>
>A wonderful video clip of an Indian intersection working in ways most
>traffic engineers would never imagine in their wildest dreams. If you
>have never seen traffic in South Asia then this might come as something

>of a shock.
>
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM
> >
>
>Paul
>
>
>================================================================ 
>SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
countries
>(the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main
focus 
>is on urban transport policy in Asia.
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:44:09 -0400
>From: "Walter Hook" <whook at itdp.org >
>Subject: [sustran] Re: New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A
>       Proposal        forDiscussion
>To: <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>, "'Asia and the Pacific sustainable 
>       transport'"     <sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>,
>       <NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com
<mailto:NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com> >,      "'Sustran Resource
Centre'"
>       <sustran-discuss at jca.apc.org>
>Cc: CarFreeCafe at yahoogroups.com 
>Message-ID: <012e01c667a5$2a6eb140$c301a8c0 at DFJLYL81>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Eric,
>
>
>
>Paul white and i had a related idea over lunch the other day, and we
were 
>wondering if this has ever been tried.
>
>
>
>What if all the property owners and permanent tenants living along a
block
>of urban street were given the choice by the municipality of whether
they 
>wanted the space in front of their house dedicated to car parking or
>sidewalk?  How many residents would vote for car parking?   It might be
>done
>something like this.  The department of transport could determine the 
>needed
>road capacity, but the parking units would be a function of ultra local
>democracy.  What if as a result, each permanent resident or registered
>voter, or even just each property tax payer, on a city block got to 
>determine the democratic use of the public space in front of their
>property.
>Since it is currently most of the time dedicated to parking, at least
in
>the
>US, even if only 10% voted to get rid of the parking, that would be 10%
of 
>the parking units we could reclaim.  On my block i would guess that
maybe
>50% would opt for a wider sidewalk. Then a block association could be
free
>to contract an architect to redesign the street with that same number
of 
>units of parking.
>
>
>
>I am wondering if there are any successful examples of this sort of
ultra
>local democracy?
>
>
>
>Walter
>
>
>
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org ] On
Behalf
>Of Eric Britton
>Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 12:34 PM
>To: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; Sustran Resource Centre
>Cc: CarFreeCafe at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [sustran] New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A Proposal
>forDiscussion
>
>
>
>New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A Proposal for Discussion 
>
>
>
>When it comes to creating more viable and fairer transport systems, and
>behind that our real objective: more agreeable and more sustainable
cities,
>we have one recurrent problem that we can perhaps deal with if we put
our 
>heads together.
>
>
>
>As is well known, whenever any given 'soft transport', "public space"
or
>some type of "not quite so many cars" initiative is proposed in any
given 
>place, the first and most striking thing that happens is the howls of
>protest that immediately emerge from  all those who claim that their
>democratic entitlements are being threatened by, as they often like to
put 
>it, some small group of arrogant bike-happy  technocrats and their
fellow
>eco-travelers. And since the media always likes a good cat fight, these
>righteous citizens often dominate the news. For the rest, for you and
me 
>and
>others like us, hey! we're the Silent Minority.  The absolutely
>disenfranchised.
>
>
>
>Well, it does not always have to be like that and here is one proposal
>concerning which I would like to invite discussions and refinement -
all as 
>a prelude to giving this idea a couple of trial runs in one or more
>pioneering cities.
>
>
>
>The idea is to carry out an annual open citizen survey of attitudes and
>preferences concerning transport policy and practice (and the
investments 
>that go with it) in your city.  The results should be made widely
available
>through old and new media, and brought to the fore of the attention of
the
>politicians, administrators and policy makers in your city. Here
without 
>any
>pretense of it being anything other than a grain of sand to get us
going is
>my draft proposal for content for quick mini-survey that can be
>administered
>by phone, email or on any street corner by volunteers: 
>
>
>
>Note to the reader: In a first instance, before digging into the
details, I
>would like to ask the members of this fine group: (a) is this an idea
that
>is worth pursuing; (b) are there some (better)examples that we should
be 
>looking at and learning from. Then once we have a feel for this as a
useful
>activity, we can then start to see how we might together fine tune a
good
>questionnaire and routine.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>1, Draft Mini-survey (for comment and . . . )
>
>All questions where appropriate to be answered simply by a 1 (yes), 0
>(don't 
>know), -or -1 (no), which will facilitate aggregation and overview.
>
>
>
>1.      Name
>
>2.      City of residence
>
>3.      M/F
>
>4.      Age: <15; 15-30; 30-65; >65 
>
>5.      Do you own/drive a car?
>
>6.      My city government has a coherent, announced transportation
policy:
>
>7.      I believe that this is a wise and well executed policy.
>
>8.      We need to spend more money to build more roads and more
parking as
>a main transport priority.
>
>9.      We need to give much more attention and spend more money on
"soft
>transport" and related life quality initiatives (examples: better
support 
>of
>pedestrians and cyclists, traffic calming,  more public transport, new
>forms
>of shared transport, ITC substitutes for displacement.)
>
>10.  It is possible for people to live here well and easily without
having 
>their own car.
>
>11.  If they want my vote -- all candidates for local public office
should
>take a firm stand on their transportation policies, and issue as part
of
>their platform a signed personal statement indicating their support of
more 
>sustainable  transport  projects and programs.
>
>
>
>Your eventual brief comments or suggestions:
____________________________
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
_____ 
>_______________________________________________________________________
_____
>_______________________________________________________________________
_____
>____________________________________________________ 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>2. How to execute - Thoughts on
>
>
>
>*         This maybe is pushing it for length. If it can't be
administered 
>in three minutes, it probably will not do the job. Try it out on a
couple
>of
>friends and let us know.
>
>*         There is plenty of evidence that people tend to create and
>administrate questionnaires that one way or another tend to elicit
their 
>favored response. We should meticulously  avoid doing this, and in our
>selection of questions - and people to be queried. If it ain't neutral,
it
>is not worth a lot. So careful, eh?
>
>*         The simple mental model I have for this is an excel table
with 
>names in columns, etc. All leading to easy sorting and sub-total
>
>*         To have a real impact, it will best be administered at some
fixed
>time.
>As examples: on Earth Day, in cooperation with any local Car Free Days,

>European Moblity Week, etc.)
>
>*         The procedures and information should be fully public so that
>there can be no charges of rigging the returns.  (Expect in Belarusia
and
>Florida in which it is OK.) 
>
>*         Also involve schools, various clubs and groups, senior
citizens,
>handicapped, pedestrian and cyclist naturally but also take it into
>hospitals, prisons, old people's homes, jails, and the homeless. 
>
>*         Local media partnerships, and even strong involvement by
them,
>will be most useful.
>
>*         I would propose that the on-street interviews be carried out
on
>one day - but that an entire week be given over to the entire
procedures. 
>
>*         The results should be publicly announced.
>
>*         And then all those in local government should be asked to
comment
>and give their appreciations of what this means. (Note: Our friends in 
>South
>Africa with their first Car Free Days last year did a good job of this
>which
>we might usefully consult)
>
>*         We propose that this be an annual exercise.
>
>*         And that to the extent possible and sensible, we might want
to 
>think about questions and formats that are sufficiently parallel to
allow
>us
>to aggregate.
>
>*         BTW, is there or has there ever been anything like this in
your
>city? Neighborhood? That we can learn from? 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>3. Parallel in-death Survey
>
>
>
>It may be a good idea to have a more in depth survey for those people
>disposed to spend more time with us on this. 
>
>
>
>The trick will be to determine who, how, when,  - and how used?
>
>
>
>Here are a few first thoughts on this to get us going:
>
>
>
>*         Employment, social status 
>
>*         Where live/where work
>
>*         If it were faster and cheaper to get to work or school by
some
>way
>other than driving a car (in traffic) would you be willing to consider
it? 
>
>*         When was the last time you took a bus or rail transit?
>
>*         Used a bike to get to work or school?
>
>*        D you think that it might be a good idea for your city to
publish 
>and maintain a "sustainable transportation webpage" that reports on key
>indicators including traffic deaths and incidents (by gravity and
type),
>CO2
>or other clean air indicators, parametric indicators of infrastructure
and 
>performance of NMT options, etc.
>
>*        Would you be willing to work, say, 20 hours over a period of
one
>or
>two months.  as a volunteer to support better researched specific
projects 
>in your neighborhood.
>
>*        Etc.
>
>*        Etc
>
>*
>
>
>
>-------------- next part --------------
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>
>------------------------------ 
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:44:09 -0400
>From: "Walter Hook" <whook at itdp.org>
>Subject: [sustran] Re: New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A 
>       Proposal        forDiscussion
>To: <eric.britton at ecoplan.org>, "'Asia and the Pacific sustainable
>       transport'"     < <mailto:sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>
sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>,
>       <NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com>,      "'Sustran Resource
Centre'"
>       < sustran-discuss at jca.apc.org
<mailto:sustran-discuss at jca.apc.org> >
>Cc: CarFreeCafe at yahoogroups.com
>Message-ID: <012e01c667a5$2a6eb140$c301a8c0 at DFJLYL81>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
>
>Eric,
>
>
>
>Paul white and i had a related idea over lunch the other day, and we
were
>wondering if this has ever been tried.
>
>
>
>What if all the property owners and permanent tenants living along a
block 
>of urban street were given the choice by the municipality of whether
they
>wanted the space in front of their house dedicated to car parking or
>sidewalk?  How many residents would vote for car parking?   It might be

>done
>something like this.  The department of transport could determine the
>needed
>road capacity, but the parking units would be a function of ultra local
>democracy.  What if as a result, each permanent resident or registered 
>voter, or even just each property tax payer, on a city block got to
>determine the democratic use of the public space in front of their
>property.
>Since it is currently most of the time dedicated to parking, at least
in 
>the
>US, even if only 10% voted to get rid of the parking, that would be 10%
of
>the parking units we could reclaim.  On my block i would guess that
maybe
>50% would opt for a wider sidewalk. Then a block association could be
free 
>to contract an architect to redesign the street with that same number
of
>units of parking.
>
>
>
>I am wondering if there are any successful examples of this sort of
ultra
>local democracy? 
>
>
>
>Walter
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto: sustran-discuss-bounces+whook=itdp.org at list.jca.apc.org] On
Behalf
>Of Eric Britton
>Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 12:34 PM
>To: NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; Sustran Resource Centre
>Cc: CarFreeCafe at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [sustran] New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A Proposal 
>forDiscussion
>
>
>
>New Mobility Citizen Poll for Your City- A Proposal for Discussion
>
>
>
>When it comes to creating more viable and fairer transport systems, and

>behind that our real objective: more agreeable and more sustainable
cities,
>we have one recurrent problem that we can perhaps deal with if we put
our
>heads together.
>
>
>
>As is well known, whenever any given 'soft transport', "public space"
or 
>some type of "not quite so many cars" initiative is proposed in any
given
>place, the first and most striking thing that happens is the howls of
>protest that immediately emerge from  all those who claim that their 
>democratic entitlements are being threatened by, as they often like to
put
>it, some small group of arrogant bike-happy  technocrats and their
fellow
>eco-travelers. And since the media always likes a good cat fight, these

>righteous citizens often dominate the news. For the rest, for you and
me
>and
>others like us, hey! we're the Silent Minority.  The absolutely
>disenfranchised.
>
>
>
>Well, it does not always have to be like that and here is one proposal 
>concerning which I would like to invite discussions and refinement -
all as
>a prelude to giving this idea a couple of trial runs in one or more
>pioneering cities.
>
>
>
>The idea is to carry out an annual open citizen survey of attitudes and

>preferences concerning transport policy and practice (and the
investments
>that go with it) in your city.  The results should be made widely
available
>through old and new media, and brought to the fore of the attention of
the 
>politicians, administrators and policy makers in your city. Here
without
>any
>pretense of it being anything other than a grain of sand to get us
going is
>my draft proposal for content for quick mini-survey that can be 
>administered
>by phone, email or on any street corner by volunteers:
>
>
>
>Note to the reader: In a first instance, before digging into the
details, I
>would like to ask the members of this fine group: (a) is this an idea
that 
>is worth pursuing; (b) are there some (better)examples that we should
be
>looking at and learning from. Then once we have a feel for this as a
useful
>activity, we can then start to see how we might together fine tune a
good 
>questionnaire and routine.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>1, Draft Mini-survey (for comment and . . . )
>
>All questions where appropriate to be answered simply by a 1 (yes), 0 
>(don't
>know), -or -1 (no), which will facilitate aggregation and overview.
>
>
>
>1.      Name
>
>2.      City of residence
>
>3.      M/F
>
>4.      Age: <15; 15-30; 30-65; >65 
>
>5.      Do you own/drive a car?
>
>6.      My city government has a coherent, announced transportation
policy:
>
>7.      I believe that this is a wise and well executed policy.
>
>8.      We need to spend more money to build more roads and more
parking as
>a main transport priority.
>
>9.      We need to give much more attention and spend more money on
"soft
>transport" and related life quality initiatives (examples: better
support 
>of
>pedestrians and cyclists, traffic calming,  more public transport, new
>forms
>of shared transport, ITC substitutes for displacement.)
>
>10.  It is possible for people to live here well and easily without
having 
>their own car.
>
>11.  If they want my vote -- all candidates for local public office
should
>take a firm stand on their transportation policies, and issue as part
of
>their platform a signed personal statement indicating their support of
more 
>sustainable  transport  projects and programs.
>
>
>
>Your eventual brief comments or suggestions:
____________________________
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
_____ 
>_______________________________________________________________________
_____
>_______________________________________________________________________
_____
>____________________________________________________ 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>2. How to execute - Thoughts on
>
>
>
>*         This maybe is pushing it for length. If it can't be
administered 
>in three minutes, it probably will not do the job. Try it out on a
couple
>of
>friends and let us know.
>
>*         There is plenty of evidence that people tend to create and
>administrate questionnaires that one way or another tend to elicit
their 
>favored response. We should meticulously  avoid doing this, and in our
>selection of questions - and people to be queried. If it ain't neutral,
it
>is not worth a lot. So careful, eh?
>
>*         The simple mental model I have for this is an excel table
with 
>names in columns, etc. All leading to easy sorting and sub-total
>
>*         To have a real impact, it will best be administered at some
fixed
>time.
>As examples: on Earth Day, in cooperation with any local Car Free Days,

>European Moblity Week, etc.)
>
>*         The procedures and information should be fully public so that
>there can be no charges of rigging the returns.  (Expect in Belarusia
and
>Florida in which it is OK.) 
>
>*         Also involve schools, various clubs and groups, senior
citizens,
>handicapped, pedestrian and cyclist naturally but also take it into
>hospitals, prisons, old people's homes, jails, and the homeless. 
>
>*         Local media partnerships, and even strong involvement by
them,
>will be most useful.
>
>*         I would propose that the on-street interviews be carried out
on
>one day - but that an entire week be given over to the entire
procedures. 
>
>*         The results should be publicly announced.
>
>*         And then all those in local government should be asked to
comment
>and give their appreciations of what this means. (Note: Our friends in 
>South
>Africa with their first Car Free Days last year did a good job of this
>which
>we might usefully consult)
>
>*         We propose that this be an annual exercise.
>
>*         And that to the extent possible and sensible, we might want
to 
>think about questions and formats that are sufficiently parallel to
allow
>us
>to aggregate.
>
>*         BTW, is there or has there ever been anything like this in
your
>city? Neighborhood? That we can learn from? 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>3. Parallel in-death Survey
>
>
>
>It may be a good idea to have a more in depth survey for those people
>disposed to spend more time with us on this. 
>
>
>
>The trick will be to determine who, how, when,  - and how used?
>
>
>
>Here are a few first thoughts on this to get us going:
>
>
>
>*         Employment, social status 
>
>*         Where live/where work
>
>*         If it were faster and cheaper to get to work or school by
some
>way
>other than driving a car (in traffic) would you be willing to consider
it? 
>
>*         When was the last time you took a bus or rail transit?
>
>*         Used a bike to get to work or school?
>
>*        D you think that it might be a good idea for your city to
publish 
>and maintain a "sustainable transportation webpage" that reports on key
>indicators including traffic deaths and incidents (by gravity and
type),
>CO2
>or other clean air indicators, parametric indicators of infrastructure
and 
>performance of NMT options, etc.
>
>*        Would you be willing to work, say, 20 hours over a period of
one
>or
>two months.  as a volunteer to support better researched specific
projects 
>in your neighborhood.
>
>*        Etc.
>
>*        Etc
>
>*
>
>
>
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>
>================================================================
>SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
countries 
>(the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main
focus is
>on urban transport policy in Asia.
>
>End of Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 32, Issue 32
>*********************************************** 




================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus
is on urban transport policy in Asia. 



-- 
------------------------------------------------------
Sujit Patwardhan
sujit at vsnl.com
sujitjp at gmail.com

"Yamuna", 
ICS Colony, 
Ganeshkhind Road,
Pune 411 007
India
Tel: 25537955
-----------------------------------------------------
Hon. Secretary:
Parisar
www.parisar.org
------------------------------------------------------
Founder Member: 
PTTF 
(Pune Traffic & Transportation Forum)
www.pttf.net
------------------------------------------------------ 
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