[sustran] Re: Hybrid cars can they help the developing world?

Daryl Oster et3 at et3.com
Fri Apr 21 11:40:41 JST 2006



> Original Message From: Sunny
> 
> In view of the recent comments on the hybrid cars. I would like to ask
> the members here that how many of us would feel that Hybrid cars can
> help the developing world in any way to provide relief from the
> increasing car dependency and everyday traffic jams.

IMO, there are much better solutions for the developing world than cars,
like ETT, and MoPods (tm).  We ALL depend on transportation -- without the
ability to get to food and water, or to have food and water brought to us --
we die!  So the sustainability of the transportation dependence we all share
boils down to achieving maximum efficiency in transportation.  

In the mid 1800s it was proven that trains and bikes offered greater overall
transportation efficiency than ox carts and horses for moving most people
and goods (but a few people still refuse to acknowledge this).  In the early
1900s it was proven that cars and aircraft and pipelines improved transport
efficiency further still and displaced passenger trains (some refuse to
acknowledge this).  

If there is such a thing as "car dependency" it is because the car offers
far greater transportation VALUE (for most people - but not all people) than
any other mode.  As one cannot enjoy the same standard of living AND return
to a less efficient mode!  There are many ways to measure efficiency -
energy efficiency, labor efficiency, materials efficiency, ROW efficiency,
risk efficiency, etc -- the lowest common denominator of universal agreement
in overall transportation efficiency is TOTAL COST PER PASENGER (or ton) PER
UNIT OF DISTANCE.  


> I support both Todd and Olly, I don't see any benefit from having a
> hybrid in the developing cities like Delhi, Bangalore or Bangkok. In
> these cities this might increase the status symbol for many people who
> can boast on their hybrid ownership. But hybrids in any way cannot
> reduce the maternal causalities in the villages or increase the access
> to schools in the rural parts and I am sure that there are many people
> in India who have never even heard of a  hybrid.  I would have surely
> supported  if it had shown signs of increasing the equity and gender.
> These in my view are the important goals to be achieved in terms of
> transportation in the developing world.

Equity and gender in the developed world are vastly improved compared to the
developing world - this is fact.  I submit to the group that bikes, trains,
planes, and automobiles, played the biggest roles in this social
sustainability accomplishment.

> If it comes to air pollution reduction...yes hybrids MIGHT reduce the
> air pollution but wht is the point if the existing car users don't shift
> but instead new hybrids are added to the roads. 

I agree that most people do not buy hybrids because of superior
transportation value, but instead because of projecting the image of
environmental responsibility.  IMO, hybrids (and /or EVs) are now almost
equal in value, and will soon surpass the transportation value of
conventional ICE (internal combustion engine) powered cars in the same
classes.  

> Then it is not a reduction in air pollution but an increase though it is 
> only a small fraction. At the end of life the hybrids might be responsible

> for more pollution, air, water or land, due their improper disposal. In 
> country like India when people are not educated in properly disposing 
> their waste how can disposing of hybrids be achieved?

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water -- you have defined the core
problem -- it is lack of education of proper use -- not inherent evils of
cars that cause most of the present problems.  Cars can be a good tool to
securing education, allowing more to both work to support a family AND
attend school.  


> On more point, I even stated in some of my earlier posts, when there is
> an increased demand in the hybrids in the developed world..what is the
> fate of their existing cars...i see two possibilities 1 - being tipped
> or 2 - is exported to the third world, in both the cases the cars
> continue to produce their part of pollution sometimes even greater.

Again, it is best to improve rather than to stagnate -- hybrids represent a
definite improvement in transportation efficiency (sustainability) - even if
not yet full realized, and even though much better improvements (such as
ETT) are well documented.  

> So, on the whole i don't see any relief in the transportation scenario
> for the developing world from the advent of the hybrids unless the
> hybrids can control the human consumption pattern with the existing
> resources available for commute.
> Sunny
> P.S: Please see attached the picture of a real eco-car

Sunny,
The cartoon reminds me of the claim that electric trains and cars are only
zero emission if they use electricity generated with non-combustion means.
Most electricity is generated by burning coal, and this produces as much or
more emissions as hybrid powered cars, but the emissions are concentrated
all at one source -- this is far worse impact than disbursed emission of the
same magnitude.  -- Remember the saying "the solution to pollution is
dilution"?



Daryl Oster
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