[sustran] Re: Hybrid cars- article from IHT

[Daryl Oster]

> Original Message From: Todd Edelman
> Hi everyone,
> Is this the "fuel economy" list? The "better car" list? 

This is the sustainable transportation list!! And since cars are presently
the most sustainable form of transportation, it makes sense to give them a
little ink once in a while.  But I say that cars can and MUST be greatly
improved upon; (just as cars have improved upon the sustainability of
trains, and trains improved upon the sustainability of muscle powered
transport).

> Technical
> information about engines is always interesting of course, as are "the
> facts" about "hype-brid cars", but  talking about "cost" as only, for
> example, purchase price vs. long-term fuel price, etc is like sooooo last
> century! (That means "cost" involves many, many factors--and I know Daryl
> has been challenged on that point before).

Todd,
Just what costs did I leave out?? 
NOTE: in the spreadsheet I recently posted, I included ALL of the costs
Litman advocates, even though I do not agree with them, and they have not
been equally applied to bikes and trains. 
If you have costs that should be added to the spreadsheet I submitted,
please specify them -- that is one reason I posted it.   

Also, just what is it about adding up and comparing the costs and benefits
of different modes that "is like sooooo last century" ?   The world operates
like that!  And that is the main reason that intercity train use has dropped
from a 90% market share in the US in 1910, to less than a 1% share today (in
spite of 30 years of the government paying most of the true cost of people
who ride trains).  

> This discussion started with a posting from Carlos, and I wrote him
> off-list that hype-brids were, in my opinion, not a step in any direction
> except the wrong one, because they are overwhelmingly still supposed to be
> used by individuals and like all other cars have all many negatives
> besides "tailpipe emissions" for this reason and many others. So they just
> confuse people, and lots of California politicians buy huge hybrids, and
> it is all such a bunch of nonsense... the Audi Awhatever may be a "great"
> car but there is great about it.
> Todd Edelman
> International Coordinator
> On the Train Towards the Future!
> Green Idea Factory,
> a member of World Carfree Network

BTW Todd, this is NOT a car-free list either, nor is it a train list.  It IS
about improving the sustainability of transportation - especially in the
HIUGE developing markets in the Far East -- cars/roads are contributing, but
they are reaching the point of marginal value.  

Sustainability is NOT about being "car-free" or about "Train Towards The
Future", it IS about dramatically improving the efficiency, ecology, and
social sustainability of transportation.  Ideas to accomplish this must be
measured on a total benefit/total cost basis -- not with hyperbole and
childish ridicule.  


Daryl Oster
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