[sustran] Re: Hybrid cars- article from IHT

[Lee Schipper]

Another point -- US refineries are stretched to produce a high yield of
gasoline. Swining a huge amount of that to diesel would also be costly,
and with Daryl's numbers for diesel costs, even cutting them down
somewhat, a hybrid comes out somewhat better overall --unless a car
owner is truly a high mileage driver benefittign from a very long engine
lifetime of diesels compared to (uncertain) for the new generation of
electronic hybrids. 

>>> "Daryl Oster" <et3 at et3.com> 4/20/2006 4:07:36 PM >>>
The Toyota Corolla is the best selling brand in the world - with good
reason.  I own a 2003 model, and it is rated at 36/41 MPG by the EPA
(US
gallons).  In 86,000 miles, the average fuel efficiency is 38MPG (US
measure).  

I have owned several Diesels in the past by VW, GM, and BMW.  Diesel in
the
US is about 20% greater cost than gasoline, AND the lowest cost Diesel
car
available in the US in 2003 would have cost me $8,000 more than I paid
for
my Corolla.  $8,000 is enough for 100,000 miles worth of driving at
38mpg
and a fuel cost of $3/gal.  

In 2003, when I purchased my Corolla I compared to the Prius, and the
additional $6,000 cost could not be justified on the projected fuel
savings,
especially considering the projected battery life of 80,000 miles.  

Daryl Oster
(c) 2006  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+et3=et3.com at list.jca.apc.org 
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+et3=et3.com at list.jca.apc.org] On
Behalf Of
> Lee Schipper
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:14 AM
> To: etts at indigo.ie; sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org 
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Hybrid cars- article from IHT
> 
> The hybrid piece first appeared in the NY TImes last Sunday. MAde
many
> good points.
> 
> Be careful, though. 50 MPG US in diesel, given that diesel has 12%
more
> energy that gasoline, is really 45 MPG gasoline.
> 
> But no quesiton the Audi diesel is a great car. Whether it is a fuel
> saver depends on whether diesel is underpriced as it has been in so
many
> countries, or priced close to gasoline, as is the case in the US or
the
> UK. Our study published in the Journal of Tranpsort Economics and
Policy
> in 2002 suggested that in the low diesel price countries, the diesel
> fleet itself has no energy or CO2 savings relative to the gasoline
fleet
> because on a match pairs basis, diesels are somewhat heavier and
more
> powerful, driven so much more, selected in large part as "driving
> extenders" rather than "fuel savers". Fold in the higher energy and
CO2
> content of diesel relative to gasoline, and there was little or no
net
> savings left in the late 1990s. Would be fund to update to 2003 but
that
> would take considerable work.
> 
> The article appeard in JTEP in May 2002. Happy to send pdf copies
> (about 1 meg)
> 
> >>> etts at indigo.ie 4/19/2006 10:05:10 AM >>>
> Dear Carlos,
> 
> It sounds like 40 mpg is considered some sort of breakthrough in the
> USA - have I misunderstood? My wife's regular diesel Audi A4
> consistently averages 50 mpg across city and open road, better than
cars
> used to be, but we don't think it's anything special.
> 
> I think this just reinforces your point about clever (or sneaky)
> "green" branding by the auto industry.
> 
> With best wishes,
> 
> 
> Brendan.
>
__________________________________________________________________________
> ___________
> >From Brendan Finn, ETTS Ltd.   e-mail : etts at indigo.ie   tel :
> +353.87.2530286
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Carlos F. Pardo SUTP
>   To: carfree_cities at yahoogroups.com ;
> WorldTransport-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ;
> NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com ; sutp-asia at yahoogroups.com ; 'Asia
> and the Pacific sustainable transport'
>   Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 12:01 PM
>   Subject: [sustran] Hybrid cars- article from IHT
> 
> 
>   A nice, centered article about the reality of hybrid cars and
their
> "fuel efficiency"
> 
> 
> 
>   Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/16/opinion/edkitman.php

> 
> 
> 
>   Life in the green lane
>   Jamie Lincoln Kitman The New York Times
> 
>   MONDAY, APRIL 17, 2006
> 
> 
> 
>   If you've gone to any auto show in the last year or so, you'll
know
> that hybrid cars are the hippest automotive fashion statement to
come
> along in years. They've become synonymous with the worthy goal of
> reducing gasoline consumption and dependence on foreign oil and all
that
> this means for a better environment and more stable geopolitics.
> 
> 
> 
>   And yet like fat-free desserts, which sound healthy but can still
> make you fat, the hybrid car can make people feel as if they're
doing
> something good, even when they're doing nothing special at all. As
> consumers and governments at every level climb onto the hybrid
> bandwagon, there is the very real danger of elevating the technology
at
> the expense of the intended outcome - saving gas.
> 
> 
> 
>   Few things these days say "environmentally aware consumer" so
loudly
> as the fuel-sipping Toyota Prius. With its two power sources - one a
> gasoline- powered internal combustion engine, the other a
battery-driven
> electric motor - the best-selling Prius (and other hybrids sold by
Honda
> and Ford and due soon from several other car makers) can go further
on a
> gallon and emit fewer pollutants in around-town use than most
> conventional automobiles because under certain circumstances they run
on
> battery power and consume less fuel.
> 
> 
> 
>   But just because a car has so-called hybrid technology doesn't
mean
> it's doing more to help the environment or to reduce the country's
> dependence on imported oil any more than a non-hybrid car. There are
> good hybrids and bad ones. Fuel-efficient conventional cars are
often
> better than hybrid sport-utility vehicles - just look at how many
miles
> per gallon the vehicle gets.
> 
> 
> 
>   Being a professional car-tester, which is to say a person who gets
> asked for unpaid car-buying advice practically every day, I know
these
> distinctions have already been lost on many car buyers. And I fear
> they're well on their way to being lost on our governments, too.
> 
> 
> 
>   Lately, people have been calling me and telling me they're
thinking
> about buying the Lexus 400H, a new hybrid SUV. When I tell them that
> they'd get better mileage in some conventional SUVs, and even better
> mileage with a passenger car, they protest, "But it's a hybrid!" I
> remind them that the 21 miles per gallon I saw while driving the
Lexus
> 400H is not particularly brilliant, efficiency-wise - hybrid or not.
> Because the Lexus is a relatively heavy car and because its electric
> motor is deployed to provide speed more than efficiency, it will
never
> be a mileage champ.
> 
> 
> 
>   The car that started the hybrid craze, the Toyota Prius, is lauded
> for squeezing 40 or more miles out of a gallon of gas, and it really
> can. But only when it's being driven around town. On a cross-
country
> excursion in a Prius, the staff of Automobile Magazine discovered
> mileage plummeted on the Interstate. In fact, the car's computer,
which
> controls the engine and the motor, allowing them to run together or
> separately, was programmed to direct the Prius to spend most of its
> highway time running on gasoline because at higher speeds the
batteries
> quickly get exhausted.
> 
> 
> 
>   Indeed, the gasoline engine worked so hard that we calculated we
> might have used less fuel on our journey if we had been driving
Toyota's
> conventionally powered, similarly sized Corolla - which costs
thousands
> less.
> 
> 
> 
>   For years, most of the world's big car makers have shied away from
> building hybrids because while they are technologically intriguing,
they
> are also an inelegant engineering solution - the use of two energy
> sources assures extra weight, extra complexity and extra expense (as
> much as $6,000 more per car.) The hybrid car's electric battery
packs
> rob space from passengers and cargo and although they can be
recycled,
> not every owner can be counted on to do the right thing at the end
of
> their vehicle's service life. And an unrecycled hybrid battery pack,
> which weighs more than 100 pounds, poses a major environmental
hazard.
> 
> 
> 
>   So the ideal hybrid car is one that is used in town and carefully
> disposed of at the end of its days. Hybrid taxis and buses make
enormous
> sense. But the market knows no such distinctions. People think they
want
> hybrids and they'll buy them, even if a conventional car would make
more
> sense. The danger is that the automakers will co- opt the hybrids'
green
> mantle and, with the help of a government looking to bail out its
> troubled friends in Detroit, misguidedly encourage the sale of
hybrids
> without reference to their actual effect on oil consumption.
> 
> 
> 
>   Pro-hybrid laws and incentives sound nice, but they might just end
up
> subsidizing companies that have failed to develop truly
fuel-efficient
> vehicles at the expense of those that have had the foresight to
design
> their cars right in the first place. And they may actually punish
> citizens who save fuel the old- fashioned way - by using less of it,
> with smaller, lighter and more efficient cars. All the while,
they'll
> make a mockery of a potentially useful technology.
> 
> 
> 
>   (Jamie Lincoln Kitman is the New York bureau chief for Automobile
> Magazine and a columnist for Top Gear, a British magazine.)
> 
> 
> 
>
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> ----
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   ================================================================
>   SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
countries
> (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main
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> 
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
countries
> (the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main
focus
> is on urban transport policy in Asia.



================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus
is on urban transport policy in Asia.