[sustran] Re: Transport of Delight! New Book!

[Carlos F. Pardo]

Just a remark on your comment about the Bangkok BRT: As our project is =
based
in Bangkok, we have been closely following its progress. Up to now, I =
think
we can't say that there is a priority of the middle class over the urban
poor, since we don't even know where the BRT will go! The first two =
lines
compose a "pilot" project and should be ready by October (how they'll
manage, nobody knows). Anyway, I think we can't say anything about it, =
since
few people have a fair understanding of how it's all going to work. They
haven't arrived at a fare structure and they do not know much about the =
rest
of the components of the system. In summary, the only thing that the =
Bangkok
Metropolitan Administration has very clear is that they want to have a =
BRT
by October this year, and they have everybody following this deadline.
However, talking with the Governor last week has been fruitful in the =
sense
that he has agreed to develop a "full BRT system" for the remaining =
lines
until 2007 or so. Let's see what happens and what conclusions we can =
derive
from this experience.=20

Getting back to the point, I think this is too much Foucault today for =
me (
maybe tomorrow I can have some more). I agree with Dr Richmond's idea =
that
we should try and solve problems concerning the decision (political or
personal) to choose one or the other transport system, but there has to =
be
an explanation from all sides (engineering, economics, psychology, urban
planning, etc).

Best regards,

Carlos F. Pardo
Project Coordinator
GTZ Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP)
Room 0942, Transport Division, UN-ESCAP
ESCAP UN Building
Rajadamnern Nok Rd.
Bangkok 10200, Thailand
Tel:=A0 +66 (0) 2 - 288=A0 2576
Fax: +66 (0) 2 - 280=A0 6042
Mobile: +66 (0) 1 - 772 4727
e-mail: carlos.pardo at sutp.org
Website: www.sutp.org


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jonathan E. D. Richmond [mailto:richmond at alum.mit.edu]=20
Enviado el: Thursday, March 17, 2005 5:03 PM
Para: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
CC: 'Carlos F. Pardo'; UTSG at JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Asunto: Re: [sustran] Re: Transport of Delight! New Book!



Just to clarify that my account uses both quantitative and qualitative
evidence. Before I develop a theory of myth, I present an extensive =
review
of both the processes of analyses used in Los Angeles and their =
outcomes.
I examine systems of forecasting in use both as conceived (a critique
of the UTPS system is included) and as applied, and conclude that an
alternative method of assessment is needed which starts from a basis of
social needs rather than what Alan Altshuler has labeled "preselected
solutions."

One thing which those outside the States may not appreciate is that =
there
has been quite a shift in public opinion in LA following the opening of
rail, with protests at the damage done to bus services used by the urban
poor as a result of the rail program, and a new focus on projects such =
as
bus rapid transit. The support for rail in evidence when I did my =
research
is now very much weaker.

HOWEVER... not only is there a story about the mythology of rail =
transit,
but it can also be about bus transit and, indeed, highway building. =
While
I am still in the process of getting a precise understanding, my feeling
in Bangkok is that BRT will be implemented as a middle-class project, =
with
buses designed to be both smart and expensive, so as to exclude the =
urban
poor. The imagery is of extending the middle-class world. Of course, we
all know about the foolish belief that building highways will "solve"
congestion problems, but such is the popular perception. If we can
understand why people come up with such ideas, we can find ways to =
better
edicate the public and to build a more reflective planning system.

I would prefer readers not to focus on the technical arguments of the
"rail versus bus" debate when they read my book, but instead see what
they might find of interest in terms of learning about how all of us
perceive the world and make decisions.

I do hope many of you might be interested in reading the book -- perhaps
this little exchange has in fact helped my marketing efforts and I =
should
in fact thank Todd Litman! -- and I will welcome your comments when you
have done so.

Regards,

                        --Jonathan


On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Carlos F. Pardo wrote:

>
> Dear all,
>
> I think this illustrates a very well known problem in epistemology.
> Different ideas of how the world works (or should work) develop into
strong
> arguments that may forget some issues of special relevance. As a
> psychologist, I have to agree that there are other points of view of =
life
> such as postmodernism that may give us some insights about language as =
a
> builder of reality (by this, I think we all understand that a rock is =
a
> physical object and that when we say that language constructs reality =
in
> language itself). Also, there are other positivist views (in the sense =
of
> Hume) that give more importance to verifiable objects than to =
cognitive
> events.
>
> As Mr Richmond has pointed out, I think his main interest is the first
topic
> I have described, and Mr Litman's view is more on the second side of =
the
> story. In order to view transport as a whole, maybe the two =
perspectives
> should be taken into account while going through the exercise of =
reading
the
> book. From the short (and a bit commercial) summary that appears in
Amazon,
> I think this is fundamentally a qualitative study (3,000 interviews, =
etc),
> and it focuses on this kind of data (I presume, discourse analysis and =
all
> that stuff). Obviously, results can be different from a purely
quantitative
> point of view and maybe they should be that way. Language doesn't
> necessarily respond to physical or statistical reality, and vice =
versa.
>
> I find this discussion quite interesting... but I hope we can arrive =
at
> conclusions instead of hopeless criticisms. Does anyone else have an
opinion
> on this?
>
>
> *views expressed not necessarily those of any employer.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Carlos F. Pardo
> Project Coordinator
> GTZ Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP)
> Room 0942, Transport Division, UN-ESCAP
> ESCAP UN Building
> Rajadamnern Nok Rd.
> Bangkok 10200, Thailand
> Tel:=A0 +66 (0) 2 - 288=A0 2576
> Fax: +66 (0) 2 - 280=A0 6042
> Mobile: +66 (0) 1 - 772 4727
> e-mail: carlos.pardo at sutp.org
> Website: www.sutp.org
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: sustran-discuss-bounces+sutp=3Dsutp.org at list.jca.apc.org =
[mailto:sustran
-
> discuss-bounces+sutp=3Dsutp.org at list.jca.apc.org] En nombre de =
Jonathan E. D
.
> Richmond
> Enviado el: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:31 PM
> Para: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> CC: UTSG at JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Asunto: [sustran] Re: Transport of Delight! New Book!
>
>
> Todd Litman, you have the nerve to raise issues about my book before =
you
> have even seen it, and all of what you have to say is a manifestation =
of
> your insecurity as an unscientific advocate of rail.
>
> My book does contain a very thorough analysis of the technical issues =
and,
> as always with my work, it is entirely impartial and has been reviewed =
by
> numerous of my academic peers.
>
> Your alleged findings are not supported by the facts. You really are =
one
> of the people my book talks about, someone who lives in a world of =
myth.
>
> Most importantly, you should note that the importance of my book is =
not
> in its findings of whether or not rail or bus systems are desirable. =
That
> is a sideline. The significance of the book is that it provides =
insight
> into how humans think and make decisions, so that we can muster powers =
of
> reflection to make better decisions.
>
> I suggest you read the book before you have anything further to say.
>
>                                   --Jonathan
>
>
>

-----

Jonathan E. D. Richmond                               02 524-5510 =
(office)
Visiting Fellow                               Intl.: 662 524-5510
Urban Environmental Management program,
School of Environment, Resources and Development
Room N260B                                            02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology                 Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120                        02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand                                      Intl:  662 524-5509

e-mail: richmond at ait.ac.th               Secretary:  Kuhn Vantana =
Pattanakul
        richmond at alum.mit.edu		              02 524-6368
					      Intl:  662 524-6132
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/