[sustran] Re: Transport of Delight! New Book!

[Carlos F. Pardo]

Dear all,

I think this illustrates a very well known problem in epistemology.
Different ideas of how the world works (or should work) develop into =
strong
arguments that may forget some issues of special relevance. As a
psychologist, I have to agree that there are other points of view of =
life
such as postmodernism that may give us some insights about language as a
builder of reality (by this, I think we all understand that a rock is a
physical object and that when we say that language constructs reality in
language itself). Also, there are other positivist views (in the sense =
of
Hume) that give more importance to verifiable objects than to cognitive
events.

As Mr Richmond has pointed out, I think his main interest is the first =
topic
I have described, and Mr Litman's view is more on the second side of the
story. In order to view transport as a whole, maybe the two perspectives
should be taken into account while going through the exercise of reading =
the
book. From the short (and a bit commercial) summary that appears in =
Amazon,
I think this is fundamentally a qualitative study (3,000 interviews, =
etc),
and it focuses on this kind of data (I presume, discourse analysis and =
all
that stuff). Obviously, results can be different from a purely =
quantitative
point of view and maybe they should be that way. Language doesn't
necessarily respond to physical or statistical reality, and vice versa.=20

I find this discussion quite interesting... but I hope we can arrive at
conclusions instead of hopeless criticisms. Does anyone else have an =
opinion
on this?


*views expressed not necessarily those of any employer.

Best regards,

Carlos F. Pardo
Project Coordinator
GTZ Sustainable Urban Transport Project (SUTP)
Room 0942, Transport Division, UN-ESCAP
ESCAP UN Building
Rajadamnern Nok Rd.
Bangkok 10200, Thailand
Tel:=A0 +66 (0) 2 - 288=A0 2576
Fax: +66 (0) 2 - 280=A0 6042
Mobile: +66 (0) 1 - 772 4727
e-mail: carlos.pardo at sutp.org
Website: www.sutp.org

-----Mensaje original-----
De: sustran-discuss-bounces+sutp=3Dsutp.org at list.jca.apc.org =
[mailto:sustran-
discuss-bounces+sutp=3Dsutp.org at list.jca.apc.org] En nombre de Jonathan =
E. D.
Richmond
Enviado el: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:31 PM
Para: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
CC: UTSG at JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Asunto: [sustran] Re: Transport of Delight! New Book!


Todd Litman, you have the nerve to raise issues about my book before you
have even seen it, and all of what you have to say is a manifestation of
your insecurity as an unscientific advocate of rail.

My book does contain a very thorough analysis of the technical issues =
and,
as always with my work, it is entirely impartial and has been reviewed =
by
numerous of my academic peers.

Your alleged findings are not supported by the facts. You really are one
of the people my book talks about, someone who lives in a world of myth.

Most importantly, you should note that the importance of my book is not
in its findings of whether or not rail or bus systems are desirable. =
That
is a sideline. The significance of the book is that it provides insight
into how humans think and make decisions, so that we can muster powers =
of
reflection to make better decisions.

I suggest you read the book before you have anything further to say.

                                  --Jonathan



On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Todd Alexander Litman wrote:

>
> Dear Jonathan Richmond,
>
> Perhaps I'll seem old-fashioned to you, but I'm afraid that I cannot
accept
> the postmodern perspective that all reality is subjective, and all
> decisions reflect metaphors. That may be appropriate for literary
criticism
> but not for public policy and planning decisions that have significant
> economic and social impacts.
>
> You present your book as an academic publication for use in =
college-level
> classes. Good scholarship requires that analysis be carefully =
described,
> conclusions explained, and that alternative perspectives and contrary =
data
> be given fair and thoughtful discussion - that is what distinguishes
> academic analysis from biased opinion and propaganda.
>
> Your book is based on the assumption that building rail transit in Los
> Angeles is "crazy" and makes no sense. If this is an academic book you
> should be able to describe the analysis that lead you to that =
conclusion,
> and identify factors which could affect that conclusion, such as
> alternative perspectives or data.
>
> Your previous publications on the subject ("A Whole-System Approach to
> Evaluating Urban Transit Investments," Transport Reviews. Vol. 21, No. =
2,
> April-June 2001, 141-180;
> http://confusion.mit.edu/~richmond/professional/wholesys.pdf) compare =
rail
> and bus transit based on direct impacts (e.g., cost per =
passenger-mile),
> without much consideration of other factors which may justify =
additional
> support for rail, such as the potential for increased ridership by
> discretionary travelers (people who have the option of driving), and =
land
> use effects (creation of more compact, mixed, walkable communities), =
and
> their leverage effects (the tendency of each rail transit =
passenger-mile
to
> reduce 2-7 automobile vehicle-miles).
>
> Research by myself ("Rail Transit in America: Comprehensive Evaluation =
of
> Benefits," VTPI (www.vtpi.org/railben.pdf), 2004) and others indicates
that
> cities with quality rail transit systems have less per capita =
congestion
> delays, lower traffic fatality rates, significant consumer cost =
savings,
> significant road and parking facility cost savings, improved mobility =
for
> non-drivers, lower transit service unit costs, higher land values, =
than
> cities that lack such systems. My analysis indicates that these =
benefits
> more than offset the additional costs of rail transit. You are =
certainly
> welcome to disagree with this conclusion and present alternative
> information, but it seems reasonable to ask whether these issues are
> mentioned in your book. I assume, from the ambiguity of your response =
that
> they are not.
>
> My concern here is not with a balanced transportation system, which =
you
> address as metaphor. It is with balance in information and =
perspectives
> provided in the book.
>
>
> Best wishes,
> -Todd Litman
>
>
> At 12:42 AM 3/17/2005 +0700, Jonathan E. D. Richmond wrote:
> >Dear Todd,
> >
> >The book contains a discussion of the "balance" metaphor, to which =
you
> >appear to be subject, among other things. The book is about the =
workings
> >of the mind, and why people make crazy decisions -- in the case of =
Los
> >Angeles, to proceed with a rail system that made no sense.
> >
> >Perhaps you need to read it!
> >
> >                                 --Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Todd Alexander Litman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Dear Jonathan,
> > >
> > > It is easy to criticize rail transit investments if they are =
evaluated
> > > using conventional transportation engineering metrics (e.g., cost =
per
new
> > > transit trip), ignoring secondary effects such as leverage effects =
on
per
> > > capita automobile mileage and desirable land use effects. I hope =
that
this
> > > book contains balanced information on the unique benefits of rail
transit
> > > and transit oriented development. Your thesis was completed years =
ago
> > > before much of this was published, but you had time to incorporate =
it
into
> > > the book. See, for example:
> > >
> > > Hank Dittmar, "Is Rail Transit Right For Your Community? Asking =
the
Right
> > > Questions; Measuring the Benefits," Surface Transportation Policy
Project
> > > (www.transact.org/report.asp), 1997.
> > >
> > > Hank Dittmar and Gloria Ohland, "The New Transit Town: Best =
Practices
In
> > > Transit-Oriented Development," Island Press (www.islandpress.org),
2004.
> > >
> > > Carmen Hass-Klau, et al., "Bus Or Light Rail : Making The Right
Choice,"
> > > Environment and Transport Planning, Brighton Press (Brighton), =
2000
> > >
> > > John Holtzclaw, "Does A Mile In A Car Equal A Mile On A Train?
Exploring
> > > Public Transit's Effectiveness In Reducing Driving," The Sierra =
Club,
> > > (www.sierraclub.org/sprawl/articles/reducedriving.asp), 2000.
> > >
> > > Todd Litman, "Rail Transit in America: Comprehensive Evaluation of
> > > Benefits," VTPI (www.vtpi.org/railben.pdf), 2004.
> > >
> > > Glenn Pascall, "The Rail Transit Debate; An Assessment Of The
Arguments,"
> > > Discovery Institute (www.discovery.org), 2001.
> > >
> > >
> > > I see much more mythology and planning distortions related to
automobile
> > > transportation (cars are often described as "sexy," see discussion =
in
> > > http://www.vtpi.org/autosex.htm and are a major status symbol as
discussed
> > > in http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm91.htm), significant planning and
modeling
> > > errors that favor highway building (see =
http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.
pdf and
> > > http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm76.htm), resulting in much greater =
economic
> > > resources wasted than occurs with rail investments.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > -Todd Litman
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:14 PM 3/16/2005 +0700, Jonathan E. D. Richmond wrote:
> > > >I would like to let you know that my "new" book, "Transport of
Delight --
> > > >The Mythical Conception of Rail Transit in Los Angeles," has now =
been
> > > >published by the University of Akron Press.
> > > >
> > > >It can be found here on Amazon (and I would certainly appreciate =
any
> > > >reader's comments on the Amazon site if you get a chance to read =
it):
> > > >
> > > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/188483695X/qid=3D
1110952534
> > =
/sr=3D8-2/ref=3Dsr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/102-6230374-9224931?v=3Dglance&s=3Dbo=
oks&n=3D
507846
> > > >
> > > >I put "new" in quotes because the book is in fact an updated =
version
of
> > > >my MIT doctoral dissertation. The book is about how a system of
images,
> > > >symbols and metaphors comes together to creat powerful myths =
which
spur
> > > >poor planning decisions (in this case, the creation of a rail
passenger
> > > >system in Los Angeles). It is full of interviews of politicians,
> > > >planners, community leaders and others, and their responses are
subjected
> > > >to a literary analysis to help understand the driving forces =
behind
their
> > > >reasoning and actions. I find that there is a "logic of the =
insane,"
and
> > > >suggest that those of us subject to such a logic -- frankly all =
of us
at
> > > >some time or another -- need to be able to learn to identify and
reflect
> > > >on the assumptions which constrain us if we are to move beyond =
them.
> > > >This is not just about transportation, but about thought and
> > > >action as a whole.
> > > >
> > > >I also include a critique of technical modelling procedures in =
use in
LA
> > > >(and typically used widely elsewhere). A history of =
transportation
policy
> > > >development in the States (and specifically in Los Angeles) is =
also
there,
> > > >and should be of widespread interest.
> > > >
> > > >Unfortunately, I am very unhappy with the production of the book. =
The
> > > >University of Akron Press behaved in a disgraceful way in =
suddenly
cutting
> > > >out a large part of the essential illustrative material after it =
had
been
> > > >painstakingly assembled and permissions paid. Arguments that this
> > > >decision affected the integrity of the text fell on deaf ears. =
The
press
> > > >claimed they were short of money, but would not respond to an =
offer
to pay
> > > >the alleged additional costs of including all the materials
originally
> > > >planned (and which the press had received a year beforehand and =
had
said
> > > >would be put into production). I have made a complaint about the
press
> > > >director to the provost of the University of Akron.
> > > >
> > > >Despite this lapse, almost all my words are there -- I say =
"almost"
> > > >because the press refused to include a statement regarding the
> > > >unauthorized deletion of illustrations -- and I would of course =
like
you
> > > >to have the chance to read them and perhaps recommend my book to =
your
> > > >students, since I think it has much to say of relevance to a =
great
many
> > > >areas of human endavour.
> > > >
> > > >Best,
> > > >
> > > >                                    --Jonathan
> > > >-----
> > > >
> > > >Jonathan E. D. Richmond                               02 524-5510 =
(
office)
> > > >Visiting Fellow                               Intl.: 662 524-5510
> > > >Urban Environmental Management program,
> > > >School of Environment, Resources and Development
> > > >Room N260B                                            02 524-8257 =
(
home)
> > > >Asian Institute of Technology                 Intl.: 662 524-8257
> > > >PO Box 4
> > > >Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120                        02 524-5509 =
(
fax)
> > > >Thailand                                      Intl:  662 524-5509
> > > >
> > > >e-mail: richmond at ait.ac.th               Secretary:  Kuhn Vantana
> > Pattanakul
> > > >         richmond at alum.mit.edu                         02 =
524-6368
> > > >                                               Intl:  662 =
524-6132
> > > >http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> > >
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Todd Litman, Director
> > > Victoria Transport Policy Institute
> > > "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity"
> > > 1250 Rudlin Street
> > > Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, Canada
> > > Phone & Fax: 250-360-1560
> > > Email: litman at vtpi.org
> > > Website: http://www.vtpi.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >-----
> >
> >Jonathan E. D. Richmond                               02 524-5510 =
(office
)
> >Visiting Fellow                               Intl.: 662 524-5510
> >Urban Environmental Management program,
> >School of Environment, Resources and Development
> >Room N260B                                            02 524-8257 =
(home)
> >Asian Institute of Technology                 Intl.: 662 524-8257
> >PO Box 4
> >Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120                        02 524-5509 =
(fax)
> >Thailand                                      Intl:  662 524-5509
> >
> >e-mail: richmond at ait.ac.th               Secretary:  Kuhn Vantana
Pattanakul
> >         richmond at alum.mit.edu                         02 524-6368
> >                                               Intl:  662 524-6132
> >http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Todd Litman, Director
> Victoria Transport Policy Institute
> "Efficiency - Equity - Clarity"
> 1250 Rudlin Street
> Victoria, BC, V8V 3R7, Canada
> Phone & Fax: 250-360-1560
> Email: litman at vtpi.org
> Website: http://www.vtpi.org
>
>
>
>
> =
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> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries =
(
the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus =
is
on urban transport policy in Asia.
>

-----

Jonathan E. D. Richmond                               02 524-5510 =
(office)
Visiting Fellow                               Intl.: 662 524-5510
Urban Environmental Management program,
School of Environment, Resources and Development
Room N260B                                            02 524-8257 (home)
Asian Institute of Technology                 Intl.: 662 524-8257
PO Box 4
Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120                        02 524-5509 (fax)
Thailand                                      Intl:  662 524-5509

e-mail: richmond at ait.ac.th               Secretary:  Kuhn Vantana =
Pattanakul
        richmond at alum.mit.edu		              02 524-6368
					      Intl:  662 524-6132
http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/



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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries =
(
the 'Global South'). Because of the history of the list, the main focus =
is
on urban transport policy in Asia.