[sustran] Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax

Wetzel Dave Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk
Sun Jul 11 17:01:09 JST 2004


DLR to Lewisham opened after 1997 and we now plan to go to Lewisham.
 
I was midwife to the Docklands Light Railway.
When I was Chair of the Greater London Transport Cttee (1981 to 1986) we
wanted to build the Jubilee Line Extension but the Govt stopped us because
of the cost (£600m then but actual cost £3.5bn when it was eventually built.
and opened in 1999). So we promised in our Labour Manifesto that we would
build a light rail system from Fenchurch Street (now called Tower Gateway)
to the Isle of Dogs.
We had to do a deal with the London Docklands Development Corporation (LDDC
created and appointed by the Thatcher Govt).
Sir Nigel Broakes (then Chair of the LDDC and Chair of Trafalgar House) and
I agreed to a compromise. He wanted a computerised railway and I agreed
subject to a train captain on every train, full access for people with
disability and stations for local working class people as well as the City
types going to Canary Wharf. We raised £77m from the Govt.
I chaired all the public consultation meetings and dug the first clod of
earth to start the construction.
 
Why tax wages and trade when you can tax land rent?
 

Dave 

Dave Wetzel 
Vice-chair, 
Transport for London 
Windsor House, 42-50 Victoria Street. 
London. SW1H 0TL. UK. 
Tel 020 7941 4200 

Close to New Scotland Yard. 
Buses 11,24,148,211,N11 pass the door. 
Nearest Underground - St James's Park tube station. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schabas [mailto:michael.schabas at blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: 10 July 2004 21:53
To: Hudsonmi at aol.com; Wetzel Dave
Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax


for the first 60 years US railroads made money, off passengers and freight.
And, after a rocky period in the middle of the century when they were badly
regulated, they still make money off freight. Land grants were an incentive
for construction, but only part of the price. And it was often many years
before they  the land was worth anything. Of course land grants were a real
(And legitimate) incentive to build railways. 
 
there were no land grants at all for Britain's railways. Parliament never
gave powers to acquire surplus land for development. The Metropolitan was
one of the few that got into the development game, originally as a side
line. 
 
It was only in the 1950s that US railroads started to give up on passengers.

 
Even in Hong Kong, MTR only gets about 1/3 of its income from land and
retail schemes, and there are significant offsetting costs. So development
may pay 10% to 20% of MTR capital costs. 
 
Just the facts.
 
I am a big fan of value capture and LVT, where it can work. But it is often
a red herring. DLR, JLE, CTRL, Heathrow Express, Croydon Tramlink, all built
by tory governments without LVT. 
 
What have we had since 1997? A short extension of the DLR to City Airport
(with no value capture, I think!). Not a lot else.
 
(not to diminish the merits of sensible bus fares, oyster, and congestion
charging) 
 
 
Michael at Schabas.net <mailto:Michael at Schabas.net> 
mobile +44 7973 241 214 land +44 20  8442 0777


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hudsonmi at aol.com <mailto:Hudsonmi at aol.com>  
To: Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk <mailto:Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk>  ;
michael at schabas.net <mailto:michael at schabas.net>  
Cc: samm at ltmuseum.co.uk <mailto:samm at ltmuseum.co.uk>  ; Bobkiley at tfl.gov.uk
<mailto:Bobkiley at tfl.gov.uk>  ; jaywalder at tfl.gov.uk
<mailto:jaywalder at tfl.gov.uk>  ; +TFLF <mailto:+TFLF&PBPP at Tfl.gov.uk>
&PBPP at Tfl.gov.uk 
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax

Dear Dave, 
      The point Mr. Shabas makes does not apply at all to America. Does it
to Britain? 
      He says that railways always have depended on fares for their
financing. In America, their construction was financed by land grants --
vast giveaways that made the railroads the nation's largest landowners. What
appears superficially as a railroad construction project actually was a land
giveaway. In time, the railroads shirked their responsibilities, let
PennCentral and other go bankrupt, and kept the rich urban property around
their central stations. 
      In London's case, the tube will not be financed by giving the tube
land; but it will get the increased capital gain -- that is, the land-price
gain -- from land values. 
      Michael Hudson 



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