[sustran] Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax

[Andrew Braddock]

If you talk to anyone who has been a regular user of public transport
elsewhere in Europe they will tell you very firmly that it is far better
than in the UK.  Passengers in Manchester would be staggered if they had a
system as good as Vienna or Zürich!  There are, of course, a few exceptions
- EG: London is pretty good and getting better (certainly in terms of
surface public transport) and rural France or Spain has little outside of
school buses.

Andrew Braddock



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schabas [mailto:michael.schabas at blueyonder.co.uk] 
Sent: 11 July 2004 10:41
To: Wetzel Dave; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport;
diggers350 at yahoogroups.com; NewMobility at yahoogroups.com;
NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com; scurader at comcast.net; UTSG;
WorldCarfreeDays at yahoogroups.com; WorldTransport at yahoogroups.com;
WorldTransport-Focus at yahoogroups.com; Yahoo! Groups Notification
Cc: 'Andrew Braddock (ABOUT)'; 'Michael Schabas'
Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax

the short answer is that they don't mean much except that car usage in
britain, germany and france is pretty similar. people drive a lot. There is
no statistical basis (at least, not on this data) to support the view that
french and german public transport systems are better than the british ones.

lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Michael at Schabas.net
mobile +44 7973 241 214 land +44 20  8442 0777

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wetzel Dave" <Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk>
To: "Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport"
<sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>; <diggers350 at yahoogroups.com>;
<NewMobility at yahoogroups.com>; <NewMobilityCafe at yahoogroups.com>;
<scurader at comcast.net>; "sustran discuss"
<sustran-discuss at list.jca.apc.org>; "UTSG" <UTSG at JISCMAIL.AC.UK>;
<WorldCarfreeDays at yahoogroups.com>; <WorldTransport at yahoogroups.com>;
<WorldTransport-Focus at yahoogroups.com>; "Yahoo! Groups Notification"
<notify at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "'Andrew Braddock (ABOUT)'" <ajb at A-B-O-U-T.com>; "'Michael Schabas'"
<michael at schabas.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax


> Any further explanation for these figures?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Schabas [mailto:michael.schabas at blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 10 July 2004 22:26
>
> Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
>
> Found it: DfT provide data on car and taxi km, for EU states.
>
> France 6,700 km per person per year
> Germany 6,510 kmpppy
> UK 6,380 kmpppy
>
> Of course the English and Germans need to fly to get to the mediterranean,
> whereas the french drive.  But don't they also have a great railway
system?
>
> Curious, UK bus mile is about double french and german figures. why?
>
>
> Michael at Schabas.net
> mobile +44 7973 241 214 land +44 20  8442 0777
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Schabas" <michael.schabas at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:35 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
>
>  Can't find comparative statistics on car useage but see
>
>
http://europe.eu.int/comm/dgs/energy_transport/figures/pocketbook/doc/tran_m
> eans_road_2003.pdf
>
>  Germany - 539 cars per 1,000 people
>  UK - 464 cars per 1,000 people
>
>
>
http://europe.eu.int/comm/dgs/energy_transport/figures/pocketbook/doc/etif_2
> 003_down2.xls
>
>  Final energy consumption - Transport (which includes rail)
>
>  Germany 55.2 Mtoe
>  UK 38.7 Mtoe
>
>  Mtoe = million tonnes oil equivalent
>
> So the Germans have 15% more cars and use about 30% more fuel for
transport,
>  but drive less?
>
>  Seems an interesting model to emulate!
>
>  Michael at Schabas.net
>  mobile +44 7973 241 214 land +44 20  8442 0777
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: "Andrew Braddock" <ajb at A-B-O-U-T.com>
>  To: "'Michael Schabas'" <michael at schabas.net>  Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk>
>  Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 4:02 PM
>
>  Subject: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
>
>
>  The Economist - not for the first time - is only 50% right.
> Car ownership per head of population in Germany is higher than in the UK
> (even after
> re-unification) but car use is significantly lower.  The difference is
> much greater use of public transport, especially in urban areas.  In
> Switzerland, car ownership is higher still but use is lower than in
Germany.
> With
> excellent public transport throughout the country, and fully-integrated
> user-friendly
> tariff partnerships across all modes, the Swiss practically  live on their
> trams, buses and trains!
>
>  Andrew Braddock
>   A B O U T
>  4 Borderside
>  YATELEY
>  GU46 6LJ
>
>  T: 01252 876295
>  M: 07740 974167
>  F: 01252 879924
>  E: ajb at A-B-O-U-T.com
>  W: www.A-B-O-U-T.com
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Michael Schabas [mailto:michael.schabas at blueyonder.co.uk]
>  Sent: 10 July 2004 11:52
>  To: ajb at A-B-O-U-T.com; 'Wetzel Dave'
>
>  Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
> My heart wants to agree with everyone but 1. the chances of adopting
German
> anything in the UK, at least related to fiscal matters, is close to zero.
>  Ask Gordon!
>  2. according to data published last year in the economist, german car
>  ownership and usage is substantially higher than British (forget the
> railway, have you seen their autobahns?).  So I  am not sure if it would
>  be such a good thing, either!
>
>  Michael at Schabas.net
>  mobile +44 7973 241 214 land +44 20  8442 0777
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Andrew Braddock" <ajb at A-B-O-U-T.com>
>  To: "'Wetzel Dave'" <Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk> <michael at schabas.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 11:30 AM
>
> Subject: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
>
>
> Dave
> Well said - the point about motoring costs falling in real terms is
> absolutely crucial to the argument.  We cannot go on with significant
> above-inflation fares rises on bus and rail whilst the car gets
> cheaper and cheaper.  It is also essential that we adopt
Swiss/German-style
> pricing policies that make public transport cheaper for off peak family
use
> and engender a culture in which the tram, bus or train is the mode of
> first choice and the car second.  LVT can clearly provide the income to
put
>  fares on a better-than-equal footing with motoring costs.
>
> Keep on fighting the good fight!
>
>  Best regards,
>
>  Andrew
>
>
>  Andrew Braddock
>  A B O U T
>  4 Borderside
>  YATELEY
>  GU46 6LJ
>
>  T: 01252 876295
>  M: 07740 974167
>  F: 01252 879924
>  E: ajb at A-B-O-U-T.com
>  W: www.A-B-O-U-T.com
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Wetzel Dave [mailto:Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk]
>  Sent: 10 July 2004 10:08
>  To: 'Michael Schabas'
>  Cc: 'Sam Mullins (LT Museum)'; Kiley Bob; Walder Jay; +TfL F&P Group
> Business Planning
>  Subject: RE: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
>  Michael
> I respect your views particularly because of your previous involvement
> with
> Canary Wharf, the JLE and Anglia Railways.
>
> The problem with owners of new transport funding from land purchases
> and
> sales is, like Development Land Taxes, S106 Planning Gain, Kate
> Barker's
> proposed "Planning Gain Supplement", TIFs, Stamp Duty etc. they all
> capture
> some land rent but unlike "Land Value Taxation" (LVT), they are just a
> one-off hit.
>
> This is why fares revenue is so important and we continue to put fares
> up
>  to
> pay for public transport when at the same time motoring costs are
> being
> reduced with cheaper cars, more mpg and fuel pump prices since the
> 1960s
> not
> even keeping up with inflation.
>
> As long as people want to use the trains, LVT gives a permanent
> revenue
> stream from which not only can the construction of a new line be
> financed
> but also contribute to its future maintenance and operating costs.
> Just imagine what would happen to property rental values and land
> prices
> in
> London if the Tube, buses and National Rail were all permantly closed
down.
> If we collected (only some of this wealth) locally and nationally,
> there
> would be no need to argue about PPP, PFIs, funding CrossRail, funding
> new
> high speed lines, bringing our railway maintenance up to modern
> standards
> and paying for better road safety!
>
>
>  Dave
>
>  Dave Wetzel
>  Vice-chair,
>  Transport for London
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Michael Schabas [mailto:michael.schabas at blueyonder.co.uk]
>  Sent: 09 July 2004 22:58
>  To: Wetzel Dave
>  Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
>
> yes - property was a good earner.  but the railway still made its
> money from fares.
>
>
>  Michael at Schabas.net
>  mobile +44 7973 241 214 land +44 20  8442 0777
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wetzel Dave" <Davewetzel at tfl.gov.uk>
> To: "'Michael Schabas'" <michael at schabas.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:20 PM
> Subject: RE: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
>
> Michael
> They developed nine estates along the line at places like Wembley Park
> and
> Pinner as well as Chiltern Court over
> Baker Street Station.
>
>  Dave
>
>  Dave Wetzel
> Vice-chair,
>  Transport for London
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Schabas [mailto:michael.schabas at blueyonder.co.uk]
>  Sent: 08 July 2004 15:29
>  To: Wetzel Dave; Cohen Arnold (Exc)
>  Cc: Georgeson Neil
>  Subject: Re: Financing Transport Infrastructure through Land Value Tax
>
> I think there is abit of a myth - MEPC was set up by the Metropolitan line
> to develop surplus lands, but they never were able to acquire vast tracts
> of property. Mostly, the railway was financed from passenger fares, not
> property revenues.
>
> As should be Crossrail.  The right scheme can generate large operating
> surpluses.
>
> I am all for LVT, but there is no reason it should just be applied around
> new railways. It should replace other less efficient taxes and be used
> to fund general expenditure.
> Michael at Schabas.net
> mobile +44 7973 241 214 land +44 20  8442 0777
>
>
>
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