[sustran] Re: Daryl Oster's comments

Daryl Oster et3 at et3.com
Fri Dec 24 06:21:45 JST 2004


Eric,

You are correct the "bleeding edge" is real, and countless companies have
failed attempting to implement technology that is dependant on making
further advances in materials, manufacturing, computing, etc. 


ETT is NOT bleeding edge technology; it is designed for practical
implementation.  All the elements of ETT are highly proven, and the capacity
for production presently exists.  Transportation in an evacuated environment
is the most proven form of transportation in the universe.  Everyone that
has ever lived has spent there whole lives traveling through space at more
than 100,000km/h without using any energy.  Observation of the perpetual
motion of the planets is the foundation of modern science.  Automation is
also highly proven; hundreds of industries (like tube manufacture) are
highly automated, and far more productive, accurate, and safe than if
controlled by hand.  


The open collaboration et3.com Inc., exists to implement ETT through an
expanding consortium of licensees who would benefit from, and are able to
offer support to ETT implementation - much like "open source" (Linux
software development), or "chaordic organizations" (like VISA international
bank cards).


There are over 50 individuals, companies, and institutions that have joined
the ETT implementation effort.  Much of the recent growth has been in China,
where ETT implementation is being planned and carried out at high levels. 


I agree that the number of Google hits is not an indication of expertise,
and I apologize that my statements can be interpreted to suggest it is.  The
number of hits IS an indication of the level and extent of recognition by
others.  Only by examining the body of work, may one determine expertise,
(or lack thereof).  "Experts" that fail to consider new paradigms in their
field, and embrace those with the highest probability of success will not
remain expert for very long, even though they may have accumulated a vast
amount of Google hits!


Daryl Oster
(c) 2004  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on earth"
e-tube, e-tubes,  and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service marks
of et3.com Inc.  For licensing information contact:    et3 at et3.com ,
www.et3.com  POB 1423, Crystal River FL 34423-1423  (352)257-1310


> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+et3=et3.com at list.jca.apc.org
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+et3=et3.com at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric Bruun
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 4:08 PM
> To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Cc: tmatoff at ltk.com; vuchic at seas.upenn.edu; preston at cc.wwu.edu;
> ywk at logistikscentrum.se
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Daryl Oster's comments
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl:
> 
> Two comments:
> 
> I think you have a narrow definition of "leading edge". Sometimes it is
> really "bleeding edge" and the concept can not be implemented in a
> practical fashion, as Jerry Scheider himself has noted. How about this
> group submitting names of some more people who have done leading edge work
> that has actually been implemented? I nominate Yngve Westerlund from
> Gothenburg, Sweden. He has done great work advancing public transportation
> for the elderly that has both reduced costs and gained acceptance. He is
> still full of practical ideas.
> 
> Also, the number of hits one gets on a websearch is not proportional to
> expertise. Wendell Cox gets cited because he is conservative and the
> conservative press and rail transit project opponents have fewer such
> people to select amongst when they want a quote or consulting help. There
> are far more left-leaning "transportation experts," so any one of them is
> likely to be cited less often.
> 
> Eric Bruun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Vittal Kumar A."
> Sent: Dec 22, 2004 1:10 AM
> To: et3 at et3.com, Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> Subject: [sustran] Re: principal voices
> 
> 
> Dear Daryl,
> 
> Type in 'E Sreedharan' and see....!
> 
> regards,
> Vittal
> 
> Daryl Oster <et3 at et3.com> wrote:
> 
> 	To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> 	According to your "principal voices" website, the principal voices
> are
> 	"globally-renowned experts". If this is true, why is it that a
> google
> 	search for Ellatuvalapil Sreedharan (the principal voice for
> transportation)
> 	turns up ZERO hits? If you are looking for an expert try the google
> search:
> 
> 	"Jerry Schneider" +transportation
> 
> 	This will turn up over 800 hits leading to Transportation Professor
> 	(retired) Jerry Schneider. Dr. Schneider is likely the most renowned
> expert
> 	on leading edge transportation alternatives.
> 
> 	Another google search:
> 
> 	"Wendell Cox" +transportation
> 
> 	This search will turn up 11,000 hits on this transportation expert.
> Why not
> 	ask either of these experts to debate with Ellatuvalapil Sreedharan?
> 
> 	If this is really a debate, why are the public questions limited to
> 4, and
> 	why is there no criteria on selection? It appears to that the
> principal
> 	voices debates could likely be a showcase for a hidden agenda that
> will
> 	after the fact be claimed to have been an internationally recognized
> debate.
> 
> 
> 	Daryl Oster
> 	(c) 2004  all rights reserved.  ETT, et3, MoPod, "space travel on
> earth"
> 	e-tube, e-tubes, and the logos thereof are trademarks and or service
> marks
> 	of et3.com Inc.  For licensing information contact:    et3 at et3.com ,
> 	www.et3.com  POB 1423, Crystal River FL 34423-1423  (352)257-1310
> 
> 
> 	> -----Original Message-----
> 	> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+et3=et3.com at list.jca.apc.org
> 	> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+et3=et3.com at list.jca.apc.org] On
> Behalf Of
> 	> EcoPlan, Paris
> 	> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 7:35 AM
> 	> To: Sustran-discuss at jca.ax.apc.org; 'UTSG'; 'New Mobility Cafe
> [NMC]'
> 	> Cc: 'Margaret Bell'; 'Phil Goodwin'; 'Walter Hook'; 'Lee Sch
> ipper'; 'F. O.
> 	> Montgomery'
> 	> Subject: [sustran] Proposal to the Principal Voices team
> 	>
> 	> Tuesday, December 21, 2004, Paris, France, Europe
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Dear Sustainable World Colleagues,
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> I intend to post the following, or some version of it, tomorrow to
> the
> 	> Principal Voices team -- http://www.principalvoices.com
> 	> -- with whom we now appear to have
> 	> found an effective communications channel in the person of Stan
> Stalnaker
> 	> of Fortune. As you will possibly note, it is along the lines of a
> ‘gate
> 	> crash’ as suggested by the indomitable Dave Wetzel of Transport
> for
> 	> London.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> If you have any thoughts or suggestions to modify or improve on
> this, I
> 	> would be most grateful to receive them at your first convenience.
> I have
> 	> tried hard to be a good representative for what I believe to be
> our shared
> 	> philosophy, and as you will note I have put myself further as our
> ‘voice’,
> 	> which may or my not be the best idea. I am as always open to
> better ones.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> You know, it is my personal philosophy that occasions like this do
> not
> 	> pass twice, so when they come up we must reach out and seize them.
> And so
> 	> it is here.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Your call.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Salamaat, Shalom, and Merry Christmas,
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Eric Britton
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> ******************************************************
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Dear Stan,
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> I appreciate your friendly note of Mon 12/20/2004 and in
> particular your
> 	> volunteering to serve as a channel of communication in the event
> that we
> 	> have anything of interest to convey to those people who are making
> your
> 	> program work. Since time is short with your January start-up date
> barely
> 	> ten days away, I should indeed like to get the following comments
> and
> 	> suggestions to your team without delay.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> 1. Principal Voices Problem – The Transportation dialogue
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> In short and speaking in the name of more than one thousand
> professionals
> 	> from more than fifty countries with a long term interest and true
> hands-on
> 	> experience and competence in matters of transportation policy and
> practice
> 	> internationally, I would like to draw your attention to what we
> regard as
> 	> two significant shortcomings in your important project as
> currently
> 	> framed. I address you here specifically on the matter of your
> 	> transportation section and would like to propose a couple of
> simple fixes,
> 	> which I might add I have shared worth our several peer networks
> just to be
> 	> sure that there is no major objection in principle to what
> follows.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> First, you need at least one more transportation voice, possibly
> two, to
> 	> have full and competent coverage of the field as it is now defined
> (we
> 	> call this New Mobility, as opposed of course to old mobility, but
> more on
> 	> that just below). Does this imply that I think there is anything
> wrong
> 	> with having Mr. Ellatuvalapil Sreedharan as leading voice? Not at
> all. To
> 	> the contrary I think it is most exciting to have him willing to
> join in
> 	> here as a representative of contemporary thinking and expertise on
> one
> 	> side of the sustainable transport debate – after all a truly
> remarkable
> 	> man: “one of India's greatest civil engineers, the architect of
> the
> 	> supposedly unbuildable Konkan Railway linking Mumbai and
> Mangalore, and,
> 	> more recently, designer of the Delhi Metro system”. I think it is
> fair to
> 	> say that his expertise will do honor to the primarily supply
> oriented,
> 	> engineering, build it and they will come perspective of the
> transportation
> 	> challenge, but that is at best only half the story. The rest of
> the story
> 	> is if anything in this day and age even more important, so in a
> moment I
> 	> will get to our suggestion as to how this might be quickly
> remedied.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> The second shortcoming of the current plan is your utter lack of a
> true
> 	> feedback and open debate forum – this is definitely going to limit
> the
> 	> profile, reach, usefulness and contribution of the final product.
> (Not
> 	> only that you are going to limit the newsworthiness of the whole
> thing,
> 	> which I imagine is also a factor that need to be brought into the
> picture,
> 	> especially given who you people are.) True enough Time, Fortune
> and CNN
> 	> are all three at heart basically broadcast media, and true too
> each is
> 	> increasingly interactive – why so? because it’s cheap, can ge t
> valuable
> 	> content, greater variety of views, and via its vigor and lively
> debate
> 	> bring each of you more faithful customers. But in this case you
> seem to
> 	> be pretty lagged in that department, and what you present thus far
> is a
> 	> crystal clear example of one more of those tiring ‘managed
> debates’ of
> 	> which we have seen far too many. We see this all the time in
> transport
> 	> and environmental circles, and if you chose to persist in this in
> the end
> 	> you always have a dead product
 which I am sure is not what you
> folks
> 	> want.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> 2. Background – The missing half of the mobility story
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> While the author of your transport issues paper has made a fair
> stab at
> 	> integrating the more complex sustainability issues in the
> introduction –
> 	> and in particular is to be commended for his choice of External
> Links
> 	> which really does provide a pretty good cover age of the various
> and quite
> 	> different points of view – the bottom line of your piece is that
> it is a
> 	> plea for (a) more supply, (b) waiting for the right time to do
> better, and
> 	> (c) tempering ‘calls for reason’ about not doing anything reach
> that might
> 	> render the plight of the hard-pressed existing suppliers of
> products and
> 	> services any worse. But dear friends, this is only one point of
> view, and
> 	> if you are indeed to live up to your promise of a wide
> international
> 	> debate, you have to reach far broader than that.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> One starting place to turn for more and better is The New Mobility
> Agenda
> 	> and its extensive international network of practitioners and
> proponents.
> 	> You can find extensive background on the philosophy and
> accomplishments of
> 	> this informal, independent but not ineffective international
> grouping if
> 	> you go to http://newmobility.org . Y ou may also
> 	> find good value in the handful of international ‘conversations’
> about and
> 	> expertise on these matters which feed into this movement: via our
> own New
> 	> Mobility Cafe at NewMobility at yahoogroups.com, the Sustainable
> Transport
> 	> Action Network for Asia and the Pacific (SUSTRAN Network)at
> 	> http://www.geocities.com/sustrannet/, the Universities' Transport
> Study
> 	> Group. at http://www.utsg.net/, and Institute for Transportation
> and
> 	> Development Policy, the http://www.itdp.org/
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> These fora and the individuals and groups behind them offer a
> clear cut,
> 	> leading edge, world level state of the art, 21st century awareness
> of the
> 	> issues and the full range of solutions -- and while there is no
> aversion
> 	> on the part of most of us to building new systems and expanding
> 	> infrastructure in specific cases, we tend to be far more reserved
> and I
> 	> would like to say sophisticated , and indeed practical, when it
> comes to
> 	> better management of the infrastructure and systems we already
> have in
> 	> place. Moreover, we tend too to be rather ambitious when it comes
> to the
> 	> creative integration of new communications technologies into the
> overall
> 	> systemic infrastructure, and that too might be one of the more
> promising
> 	> avenues of the discussions and debate.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Bottom line: Unless you find a way to factor in not only the
> points of
> 	> view of the people and groups who constitute this new leading edge
> in
> 	> transport thinking and policy, you will end up with a tame kitty.
> It’s
> 	> that simple.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Now how to get the structure in shape to do this job. Well there
> are a
> 	> number of possibilities as you may well image, but here you have
> my no-
> 	> wait proposal.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> 3. Solution proposed
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> T he Voices:
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> First and with characteristic modesty, I propose that you add my
> name as a
> 	> ‘voice’ to your transportation component to ensure that the New
> Mobility
> 	> Agenda approach is also fairly and fully represented. My thought
> is that
> 	> I can then act as a relay to ensure that our collective voices,
> principal
> 	> too, are heard. Why me? Well, because I am here, generally
> competent from
> 	> this perspective, pretty much able to work the network that you
> need to
> 	> bring in, and ready to do to work on this because I think it’s
> important.
> 	> Also since time is short, I would save you the beauty contest to
> find
> 	> someone better.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Who else? Well, you have three slots for the Environment and
> Business
> 	> ‘Conversations’ and I think we should have three for our critical
> 	> transportation dialogue as well. I know several dozen each of whom
> could
> 	> do a fine job at this, but time is short so I have to work with
> what comes
> 	> most immediately to mind in this specific context. Here you have
> two
> 	> candidates each of whom with deep qualifications and records of
> 	> accomplishment, a strong international reach, with ideas that
> often
> 	> diverge from my own, who might do very well indeed here (maybe
> better than
> 	> me in fact but forget I said that):
> 	>
> 	> o Walter Hook, who is Executive Director of the Institute for
> 	> Transportation and Development Policy, a Non-governmental
> Organization
> 	> dedicated to promoting environmentally sustainable and equitable
> 	> transportation policies and projects in developing countries and
> Central
> 	> and Eastern Europe, and whom you can reach at whook at itdp.org;
> and/or
> 	>
> 	> o Lee Schipper, who currently is Co-Director, of the EMBARQ
> project
> 	> of the World Resources Institute, and who has done quite a lot
> with your
> 	> Shell sponsors ( which might help ease the pain).
> schipper at wri.org.
> 	> Moreover since the closing transport debate is slated for Mexico
> City, a
> 	> place where Lee works pretty extensively, it might be good to have
> him
> 	> there to factor in his competence and presence for the physical
> events.
> 	> That’s schipper at wri.org
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> The Debate Forum/Discussions:
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> We will be pleased to work with you to set this up in a way that
> will do
> 	> the job. The idea is that it should be wide open, lively, well
> plugged in
> 	> to the full range of expertise and views, and that it be well
> managed to
> 	> stay on topic. Also since the web technology on all this is moving
> along
> 	> quite smartly, this could be a good occasion for us to work with
> your best
> 	> technical people to find a really strong, readable, appealing way
> to
> 	> handle this.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> A Final Thought for you: Other Technolo gies to integrate into
> this
> 	> process.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> * Have a look at http://newmobilitypartners.org and see if any of
> the
> 	> dialoguing and conferencing options set out there might be put to
> good use
> 	> in this context. It is worth at least a thought.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> There you have it Principal Voice friends. We invite you to
> respond to
> 	> this and work with us, because we think it is important. And
> because if
> 	> you truly believe in sustainable development and social justice,
> it’s just
> 	> the right thing to do.
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Best,
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Eric Britton
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Convener, The New Mobility Agenda at http://newmobility.org
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Free video/voice conferencing at http://newmobilitypartners.org
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> The Commons: Open Society Sustainability Initiative at
> http://ecoplan.org
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> Le Frene, 8/10 rue Joseph Bara 75006 Paris, France
> 	>
> 	> E: postmaster at newmobility.org T: +331 4326 1323
> 	>
> 	> --- Outgoing mail certified Virus Free. Checked by Norton Anti-
> Virus
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> The Commons Open Society Sustainability Initiative: Seeking out
> and
> 	> supporting new sustainability concepts for business,
> entrepreneurs,
> 	> activists, community groups, and government; a thorn in the side
> of
> 	> hesitant administrators and politicians; and through our joint
> efforts,
> 	> energy and personal choices, placing them and ourselves firmly on
> the path
> 	> to a more sustainable and more just society.
> 	>
> 	>
> 
> 
> 
> 
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