[sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'

Sujit Patwardhan sujit at vsnl.com
Wed Aug 25 22:03:50 JST 2004


25 August 2004


Dear Karl,
Very well put. I agree with you 100%
--
Sujit


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sujit Patwardhan
PARISAR
"Yamuna", ICS Colony,
Ganeshkhind Road,
Pune 411007
Telephone: 255 37955
Email: <parisar81 at yahoo.co.in> or <sujit at vsnl.com>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




At 10:47 PM 8/24/2004, you wrote:

>Thanks for the feedback and discussion.... Wanted to query one idea. Just
>because a service is poor, or unregulated, or unsafe, or environmentally
>unsound, does that necessarily mean it must be 'good for the poor'? Why
>can't the 'poor' have a high quality transit service with high quality
>pedestrian & bicycle access and supported by supplementary options such as
>motorcycle taxis where needed?
>
>For example: in Pattaya, Thailand, 'the poor' have for years been held
>ransom by the paratransit (van and motorcycle taxi) mafia. Earlier this year
>for 3 months a quality bus service was introduced, a small circular route
>featuring three 25 seater minibuses, a contra-flow bus lane, timetable,
>passenger information, comfortable seating, low emissions, a polite & well
>trained driver, and other innovations focusing on providing a good service.
>In short, everything the paratransit service wasn't. The service operated
>for 3 months, charging a flat fare of 5 baht (about US$0.12). Actually they
>wanted to provide it for free, as the full cost of the service was covered
>by advertising on the bus. But the paratransit mafia wouldn't let them. It
>was very popular with the locals, and was used for more than 3,000 trips
>daily. The strong focus of the service was on meeting needs of low income
>locals. Service was offered late into the night and they wanted to operate
>the service up to 2.30am but again the paratransit mafia intervened to
>insist they stopped operating at midnight (the bars close at 2am). They
>wanted to extend the service to more residential areas, and to extend it
>beyond the initial 3 month period, but again were stopped by the paratransit
>mafia and their govt proxies. This is the same paratransit that simply turfs
>out local passengers if a wealthy tourist happens along. The paratransit
>combination of vans and motorcycle taxis often (not always, often they are
>great) offers a similarly high cost and poor level of service for low income
>residents in Chiang Mai, but attempts to provide better services are
>resisted by the van/ mc taxi mafia.
>
>I don't go along with Jonathan's idea that walking and cycling is
>inappropriate for Bangkok and neither does a leading Governorial candidate,
>Apirak Kosayodhin, who is campaigning on a platform of Bus Rapid Transit,
>and wide walkways and bicycle lanes along all new roads (elections on 29th
>August...).
>
>Regards, Karl
>
>PS: Guangzhou by the way is banning motorcycles from next year. Main concern
>was security, they perceived a high level of crime associated with
>motorcycles. Another concern is the way the motorcycles taxis park and ride
>all over the walkways. This has led to a sudden spurt in bicycle purchases,
>as m/c riders for the moment at least go back to bicycles.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org
>[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org] On Behalf
>Of Viet Hung Khuat
>Sent: Tuesday, 24 August 2004 10:22 PM
>To: Anil K. Raut; Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
>Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
>
>Hallo Anil,
>It is nice to see yuor dicussion. However, we should consider some points as
>follows:
>1. The MC Taxis in BKK are mainly serving the Thai who really have lower
>income than any foregn tourists but high quaily in Thai language.
>2. In between 20-50 years the city like Hanoi, New Dehli or som other cities
>have no money to provide enough Mass Transit Serivice.
>What are the alternatives? and What is the cheapeast one?
>Have a nice day,
>HUNG
> > Very interesting debate. There are many points, I need to address on
> > the discussions.
> >
> > First: Jonathan. You mentioned the positive role of these 'bike-taxis'
> > on the streets of Bangkok. This was what I assumed when I saw them on
> > the streets of Bangkok. I was even trying to ride one. But I was not
> > familiar
>with
> > the city and these drivers were not good enough on English. So there
> > was a high chance that I could be taken to unwanted area. I gave up the
>idea.
> >
> > Another point is: I am not talking about the higher share of these
> > bike-taxis on public transport. There is obviously role for
>mass-transport. I just
> > wanted to see what could be role of these bike-taxis on a balanced
> > modal-split. I am not pushing this forward but it is good have idea on
>what is
> > going on around the world and importantly WHY it is happening, what
> > are
>the
> > driving forces. We could then localise these knowledge and plan our
> > city accordingly.
> >
> > I agree with Jonathan's point. 'A bike operating on demand in a
> > suburban area can be considerably more efficient than buses
> > circulating most of the day almost empty.' This was also my
> > observation which forced me to think about the possibility of
> > bike-taxis. I am not saying; mass-transport will consume less fuel than
>bike. I was intended to say what you mentioned.
>Bike
> > taxi can consume less fuel (and space) than a car-taxi with almost
> > most of time with single occupancy. BUT, there is certain role of mass
>transit.
>Bike
> > taxi should not be alternative to the mass-transit rather to their
> > supplement.
> >
> > Second: Mr. Mehta. I do agree with you in all ways. Yes, the oil price
> > has been going up and this has already creating problem in our country
> > in terms of revenue. We are advocating for alternative energy (which
> > are
>available
> > within our country- hydropower) and its use in transportation sector.
> > Till now electric vehicles are bit costly than fossil fuel vehicles.
> > But I guess a time will come, when the fossil fuel price will be
> > higher than
>electric
> > and we could easily promote electric vehicles. This is what the market
> > drive. At this time, we can not just push the entrepreneurs to go for
>electric
> > vehicles. They will obviously go for low cost options. However, we
> > have already more than 600 electric three-wheelers in Kathmandu. And
> > possibly
>in
> > future the share of electric transport will be increased (trolley, trams).
> >
> > But as I said earlier, this was what I intended to look for various
> > options. Our goal is the effective transport management with less
> > emission overall. For that we need to explore both the long and short
> > term
>possibilities.
> >
> > Karl: Thanks for adding more point to understand the Bangkok
> > bike-taxis. I know they were being parked within the walkways. But
> > don't you think this is a management problem rather than the
> > particular mode? I would love to know more about the Bangkok taxis
> > from you. If there has been any study on the impact on environment,
>transport management due to these taxis.
> >
> > The discussion is being interesting. Any additional thoughts????
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Anil K. Raut
> > ----------------------------
> > Anil K. Raut
> > P. O. Box 8846
> > Kathmandu, NEPAL
> > E-mail: ankraut at wlink.com.np; anil at environmentnepal.com.np
> > Tel: 977-1-4232761 (Res.)/977-9841233941 (Mobile)
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Karl Fjellstrom
> >   To: 'Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport'
> >   Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:44 AM
> >   Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> >
> >
> >   One of the downsides is that motorcycle taxis tend to lounge around
> > and park
> >   on walkways, and ride on walkways for at least part of their journey,
> >   honking aggressively to clear away those bothersome pedestrians.
> > Further,
> >   the areas they congregate in tend to be more concentrated areas of
> >   pedestrian activity such as major bus stops, markets, etc. In
> > Bangkok it's
> >   common for them to cordon off areas near a bus stop to the detriment of
> >   waiting bus passengers - e.g. in front of Pata Pinklao. Not to
> > mention the
> >   noise and air pollution they contribute, often in areas with lots of
> > people
> >   which already suffer noise and air pollution (there's been an
> > interesting
> >   debate on noise pollution recently in Bangkok following data
> > released by the
> >   Env Ministry).
> >
> >   Another consideration is that many of the motorcylce taxi trips in
> > Bangkok
> >   are within an easy walking distance - if only there was a navigable,
> >   pleasant walkway. If conditions for short distance trips by walking were
> >   improved, the demand for motorcycle taxis would diminish. Also,
> > where trips
> >   are too long to walk, bicycles could easily substitute for
> > motorcycle taxis
> >   for many trips, if only secure parking areas and other forms of
> >   encouragement were provided for cycling. Such measures need not cost
> > a lot.
> >
> >   But there seems to be little interesting in encouraging alternatives to
> >   motorcycle taxis, and this leads to the point that the motorcycle taxi
> >   industry is also a major contributor to corruption, by most estimates
> >   contributing tens of millions of dollars each year in pay-offs to
> > police and
> >   others. It's great to have these motorcycle taxi services in
> > outlying areas
> >   where otherwise no other service might be available, but the real
> > issue is
> >   their presence in congested urban areas. They can play a valuable
> > role as
> >   Jonathan outlines. However, at least in Bangkok which I'm more familiar
> >   with, encouraging walking and cycling and improved bus routings as an
> >   alternative to motorcycle taxis wherever possible, and strictly
> > prohibiting
> >   motorcycle taxis from parking or driving on walkways, would have many
> >   benefits.
> >
> >   Regards, Karl
> >
> >
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >   From: sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org
> >   [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+karl=dnet.net.id at list.jca.apc.org]
> > On Behalf
> >   Of Jonathan E. D. Richmond
> >   Sent: Monday, 23 August 2004 11:18 PM
> >   To: Asia and the Pacific sustainable transport
> >   Subject: [sustran] Re: Information on 'Bike Taxi'
> >
> >
> >   It is a mistake to assume that official public transport will
> > necessarily
> >   result in the consumption of less fuel than motorbike taxis or that
> > it can
> >   replace them in many instances. A bike operating on demand in a suburban
> >   area can be considerably more efficient than buses circulating most
> > of the
> >   day almost empty.
> >
> >   In fact, many motorbike services do operate as public transport --
> > charging
> >   about the same fare but providing a level of frequency not possible with
> >   buses. For low-income people living in outlying suburbs, there may be no
> >   alternative if density is inufficient for more formal operations --
> > in fact,
> >   in many cases, the bikes actually operate from bus stops and provide
> >   services to locations not served by buses.
> >
> >   So we have to be careful about making generalizations.
> >
> >   Note that in my case the alternative to taking a motorbike, which I
> >   frequently use to complete a journey after a bus or train ride,
> > would be to
> >   take a regular taxi for the whole journey as it would simply take
> > too long
> >   otherwise.
> >
> >                                               --jonathan
> >
> >   -----
> >
> >   Jonathan E. D. Richmond                               02 524-5510
> > (office)
> >   Visiting Fellow                               Intl.: 662 524-5510
> >   Transportation Engineering program
> >   School of Civil Engineering, Room N260B               02 524-8257 (home)
> >   Asian Institute of Technology                 Intl.: 662 524-8257
> >   PO Box 4
> >   Klong Luang, Pathumthani 12120                        02 524-5509 (fax)
> >   Thailand                                      Intl:  662 524-5509
> >
> >   e-mail: richmond at ait.ac.th               Secretary:  Ms. Nisarat
> > Hansuksa
> >           richmond at alum.mit.edu               02 524-6051
> >         Intl:  662 524-6051
> >   http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>****************************************
>Khuat Viet Hung, M.Eng
>(C/o: Prof. Manfred Boltze)
>Institut fuer Verkehr, TU Darmstadt
>Petersenstrasse 30, 64287 Darmstadt, Deutschland Tel. : + 49-6151-16 2026
>Fax:  + 49-6151-16 2045
>
>NEU: Bis zu 10 GB Speicher f|r e-mails & Dateien!
>1 GB bereits bei GMX FreeMail http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail



More information about the Sustran-discuss mailing list