[asia-apec 813] Van Sun: Chretien still don't get it, hearings to cost $1-M
David Webster
davidweb at interchange.ubc.ca
Tue Oct 20 09:12:53 JST 1998
Two CP wire stories from Vancouver Sun:
-- Chretien opens mouth, inserts foot
-- APEC/RCMP hearings to cost over $1-million
In related news, the British Columbia wing of Chretien's Liberal Party has
voted to ask the government to fund legal counsel for anti-APEC student
protesters. The vote is not expected to change the federal governmet's
mind.
Last updated: Monday 19 October 1998 NATIONAL NEWS
---------------------------------------------------------
Pepper spray better than baseball bats: PM
-------------------------------------------------------
JIM BROWN
OTTAWA (CP) - Jean Chretien
touched off yet another storm over
the APEC summit Monday, contending
that pepper-spraying student
protesters was better than bashing
them with baseball bats.
The prime minister, under opposition fire in the
Commons, said he's sorry if anybody suffered ill
effects from the spray. But he insisted it was up to
the RCMP - not him - to decide on crowd-control
measures.
"Instead of taking a baseball bat or something else,
now they try to use more civilized methods," he said.
"That's why they had towels on hand at the same time
to help (people)."
The remark came in response to New Democrat Svend
Robinson, who noted pepper spray can produce effects
ranging from burning eyes to shortness of breath and
nausea.
Noting that Chretien has since joked about the
incident, Robinson said the mother of one protester
-whom he refused to name - had complained to him that
the prime minister was making light of her daughter's
suffering.
The NDP MP, who accused Chretien in the house of
"shameful and arrogant insensitivity" continued his
attack outside the chamber.
"Be grateful, in Canada we don't use baseball bats, we
just use pepper spray," he observed sarcastically. "Is
that really what it has come to . . . How much more do
we have to take of this?"
Reform Leader Preston Manning characterized Chretien's
comment as "another ridiculous statement (and) an
insulting statement to the people who were involved."
Peter MacKay, Conservative justice critic, branded the
remarks "callous and inappropriate."
He said he has spoken to several police officers who
ingested pepper spray during training and they all
described it as "one of the most agonizing and hateful
physical experiences that they've ever encountered."
Chretien appeared anxious to make amends after
blurting out the baseball bat comparison, telling the
Commons later that he regrets any harm done to the
protesters.
He isn't very familiar with crowd-control tactics and
the various methods used by pollice to maintain order,
he said.
But if anybody suffered physical harm "I'm ready to
apologize, I have no problem about that . . .
"If this lady (referred to by Robinson) is suffering
because of the activity of the police, I apologize.
And that's it. What do you want more than that?"
The prime minister has been in hot water ever since he
joked, at the close of the Asia-Pacific summit last
November, that pepper was something he put on his
food.
He wise-cracked about the same subject at a recent
Liberal fundraiser in Winnipeg and clowned again - as
did several other politicians and journalists - at the
annual press gallery dinner in Ottawa last weekend.
Jennifer Story of the Canadian Federation of Students,
took offence Monday at the continuing jokes, saying
the government is "making a laughing matter of an
issue that we take very seriously."
The RCMP Public Complaints Commission is hearing more
than 40 complaints by demonstrators about the way they
were handled at the Vancouver summit.
The protestrers contend the police crackdown was
ordered by the Prime Minister's Office, and perhaps by
Chretien himself, to appease former Indonesian
dictator Suharto, the target of most of the protests.
The hearing has been dogged by controversy since some
of the complainants walked out last week to protest
the government's refusal to pay their legal fees.
Chretien defended that decision by Solicitor General
Andy Scott, who has spent the last two weeks fending
off attacks that he pre-judged the inquiry's outcome
in a conversation on a plane overhead by an New
Democrat MP.
The students can get whatever help they need from
commission counsel Chris Considine, the prime minister
suggested Monday. And in any event, the students are
not acused of any wrongdoing - unlike RCMP officers
who have government-funded lawyers to defend them.
"There are no accusations against any student," said
Chretien. "They are not attacked, but the RCMP is
being attacked. And some people in my office have been
asked to testify."
The government has hired private counsel to aid a
Justice Department lawyer looking after the interests
of Chretien and his staff at the hearings.
Last updated: Monday 19 October 1998 NATIONAL NEWS
---------------------------------------------------------
APEC hearings likely to be costliest in history
-------------------------------------------------------
IAN BAILEY
VANCOUVER (CP) - Hearings into
RCMP clashes with protesters
during last year's APEC summit
will be the most expensive in the
history of the RCMP watchdog
conducting them.
"It is certainly the biggest cost hearing we have
held," says Horst Intscher, executive director of the
RCMP Public Complaints Commission.
The commission budgeted $950,000 for the APEC
hearings, which enter their third week Monday.
Intscher expects the bill will be higher.
"It is going to come in higher because it is going on
longer and there are some additional costs being
incurred for larger hearing rooms," he said, adding
the complexity of the issues is also driving costs.
Shirley Heafey, chair of public complaints commission,
said Sunday that rising costs will not compromise the
panel's ability to do its work.
"There will be no expense spared to make sure that all
this is done properly and that it's open and that
everybody has a chance to be heard," Heafey said from
her home in Ottawa.
"I am trying to be careful to keep a close eye on the
budget, but not at the risk that the (APEC) matter
won't be explored fully."
The budget covers a range of costs including legal
bills for commission counsel Chris Considine, sound
equipment, court reporters, meals and hotel costs for
the three commissioners and the rental of hearing
space.
Heafey also noted that the panelists are paid $300 a
day.
A three-member panel is hearing evidence from more
than 120 witnesses to assess RCMP conduct with
protesters that sparked 49 individual complaints.
Dozens of protesters were pepper-sprayed and arrested
during clashes with police at the university where 18
Pacific Rim leaders were meeting to discuss trade.
Before APEC, the most expensive commission hearings
cost $500,000. They were held between 1989 and 1991 to
assess the case of drug informant Marcela Glambeck,
who complained about the way she was treated by
officers.
The commission's total budget for the 1997-98 fiscal
year was $3.9 million.
"Within two to three weeks, we will know how long the
hearings will go and we will know if we need more
money," said Intscher.
Ottawa has already chipped in $650,000 specifically to
help with costs related to the APEC hearings after the
commission found it was running short of funds.
The APEC hearings are expected to last six months.
Then the panel will retire to write a report.
The commission is an independent agency that began
hearing public complaints about RCMP conduct in 1988 -
two years after its creation. Although it cannot
directly punish officers, it can recommend sanctions
to the RCMP commissioner.
This is the 17th time the commission has held public
hearings on complaints.
Intscher welcomes the surge in publicity the APEC
hearings have brought to the commission.
"If you stopped anyone on the street a year ago and
asked what they knew of the PCC, they would not have
known of the existence of the commission as well as
they do now," he said.
An enhanced public profile is a key mission for the
commission, outlined in the body's latest annual
report.
The rising costs for APEC hearings come as federal
Solicitor General Andy Scott faces tough criticism
over his decision not to pay the legal expenses of
protesters, who are facing a legion of
taxpayer-financed lawyers for police and the
government.
The attacks on Scott grew sharper over the weekend.
Delegates to the convention of the Liberal party's
B.C. wing in Whistler on Saturday called on the
government to reverse its decision.
"I don't understand how we can provide legal aid for
rats like Clifford Olson and Paul Bernardo and nothing
for students holding a peaceful protest," said John
Howe of Vancouver.
Two lawyers representing nine protesters who have
filed complaints with the commission have walked out
of the hearings to protest the lack of funding.
Prof. Robert Gordon, a criminologist at Simon Fraser
University, doubts the protesters can get by without
lawyers.
"Anyone who can't effectively play the legal games
will get slaughtered," he said. "The gamesmanship that
will be played out now will be quite majestic."
Lawyers for the federal government and Mounties have
argued police need taxpayer-financed lawyers because
their careers are in jeopardy.
Commission chair Heafey agreed.
"The only people right now who would be at risk would
be the RCMP members. They are at risk as far as their
careers are concerned," said Heafey, adding their
legal costs are part of their contract.
"Although (the students') issues are very important,
they 're not at risk in the same way."
Intscher noted a pair of legal opinions solicited
since 1997 have effectively barred the commission from
paying complainants' legal costs.
He declined to defend or explain Scott's controversial
decision handed down on Friday, but conceded Scott
could have ignored the rulings.
"The government can do as it wishes," says Intscher.
"It considered a number of factors. At the end of the
day, it chose not to pay."
Commission officials - including Intscher - have said
the interests of the protesters can be properly
represented by Considine, who has promised to more
aggressively protect witnesses from tough
cross-examination.
Heafey, who previous sat on commission panels, noted
that commissioners have tended to cut off
cross-examination that becomes too aggressive.
_ _ _
\ / "Long words Bother me."
\ / -- Winnie the Pooh
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